The Business of Impactful Travel with Sanne Meijboom

“The travel industry sees that something needs to change, but how do you do that on a large scale? How can you make these shifts? How can we really co-create instead of having a transactional relationship?” ​​​​​​~ Sanne Meijboom

In this episode, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with passionate travel entrepreneur Sanne Meijboom, who believes that organizations must find the right balance between profit and positive social and environmental impact.

In combination with her hunger for travel and curiosity to learn from people from different cultures, in Sanne founded I Like Local, an impact travel marketplace where you can directly book authentic travel experiences with local people and community organizations. Recently, she joined forces with ResiRest, a company that connects travelers with social food experiences through travel partners around the world. Both organizations connect travelers with local communities through authentic, immersive travel experiences while building a more inclusive and fair tourism industry. Sanne was recognized in 2020 by Travel Massive as one of the top 100 inspiring woman travel founders.

In this episode, Christine and Sanne discuss redefining success for ourselves and our travel businesses to secure the well-being of people and our planet.

Christine and Sanne discuss:

•  Different models of success in entrepreneurship and business
• The process of creating abundance
• Creating a shift from profit-driven to values-driven business practices
• The inner work that catalyzes outer change
• How the responsible business of travel creates a positive impact

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Sanne Meijboom.

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Connect with Sanne on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/sannemeijboom

To learn more about I Like Local and explore impactful travel experiences, visit https://www.i-likelocal.com/en/.

To learn more or partner with Resi Rest, visit https://resirest.com/.

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To read a complete transcript, see full show notes, and access resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to https://www.lotussojourns.com/podcast-episodes/episode113.

Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Sanne Meijboom (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.

Transcript

Christine: Sanne Meijboom is a passionate entrepreneur who believes in the idea that organizations need to make a shift from profit maximization to the right balance in profit making and social and environmental value creation. This vision in combination with our hunger for travel and curiosity to meet people from different cultures resulted in the launch of her company, I Like Local, in 2014. Recently, she joined forces with Resi Rest. Both companies connect travelers with local communities via authentic immersive travel experiences while building towards a more inclusive and fair tourism industry. Sanne is passionate about helping to shift the narrative in the travel industry. In 2020, she made it to the list of Top 100 inspiring women travel founders by Travel Massive. In our conversation, Sanne and I talk about redefining success for ourselves and our businesses and shifting from profit-driven to values-driven businesses that are an extension of our personal values. Are you loving these soulful conversations? We rely on listener support to produce our podcast. You can support me in amplifying the voices of women by making a donation via PayPal. The link is in the show notes. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Sanne Meijboom.

Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel Podcast. Today I am joined by Sanne Meijboom, and she is the founder of I Like Local, and I am so excited. We have some really interesting facets of the industry and some moderately philosophical things to talk about in this conversation. So I can't wait to jump into these points of interests that we share. So welcome to the podcast.

Sanne: Thank you so much, Christine. I'm really excited to be here, and indeed, as you said, like tapping into some interesting topics and share our thoughts.

Christine: Yeah, thank you. Well, as we begin, if you wouldn't mind just taking a moment to introduce yourself and share with our listeners who you are in the space of travel right now.

Sanne: Yes, now my name is Sanne. I'm from the Netherlands. I yeah, started working in the travel industry in 2014. I used to work as a business consultant working for large corporates at some point, didn't really feel right anymore. And I said like, well, if I am going to have my next job, I would like to have something around one of my passions. And I have always been very curious about like, people, meeting people from different cultures that made me travel and lived in various countries in the past 10 years. And so that was really the, the first interest or sparkle. And, maybe that's a good introduction to I Like Local, the company itself. I said like, when I look back at my own travels, my most memorable experiences were always the ones with the, the local people, the local encounters these spontaneous invites.

Sanne: These always ended up at the memories that were, were really sticking. At the same time, around 2012, 2013, you saw the first like peer-to-peer companies coming up with Airbnb, of course, as one of the first ones really focusing on like this new way of travel and this new opportunity by opening up that market to every individual. And I realized that while traveling, I noticed that a lot of local people were not really benefiting from tourism in their countries, or at least not as they could. And that made me think, well, this kind of model could be a great way in on the one hand providing access to these people who never had access to the travel market before. And providing travelers like myself with really unique, authentic experiences so that you go home with really wonderful memories. And yeah, after I did some market research, I thought, let's give it a try. So that was when I launched I Like Local in 2014.

Christine: Yeah. I love that you've shared the kind of catalyst for your business was thinking about what were the most impactful experiences that you had and realizing it was the connection with locals. I think that's really similar to my journey as I wanted to create Lotus Sojourns. I was thinking, what are the stories I find myself telling the most about my travels, or what do am I really emotionally connected to still maybe 10 or 20 years after traveling to that destination? And it is, it's always the story of yeah. Conversation I had with someone, or kind of like you said, an unexpected invitation or maybe getting lost. And then the people that find you and then you know, they invite you in as they're like helping you correct course. And you have all of a sudden these unexpected experiences, but they are, you kind of fall into these really more authentic organic, powerful experiences. And so that's what I wanted to try to see if I could recreate intentionally instead of it having it be kind of the more magical happenstance. And so I Yeah. That, that was really your driving force as well.

Sanne: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then of course, it was really yeah, exciting to get started. I had no clue like how that would be received if people would really book. Yeah. So that was, that was a really interesting phase as well in my journey as an entrepreneur.

Christine: Yeah. And as an entrepreneur, I know that one of the things, you know, when we're starting our own businesses especially, is we're kind of following established models of businesses because that's what we are looking towards, what we're looking towards kind of replicating in some ways and stepping away from in others. So we're taking this traditional frame and then like measuring our businesses up against them to see what we wanna keep and what we wanna let go of. And then I think from a personal level, we also do that with looking at how we define our success and how we, we know we're achieving what we want to achieve. And I think especially working in this in this way that we are, you end up realizing that the common definitions of success aren't really aligned with our values. And I would love to hear from you how you have had to navigate that journey and what success looks like for you, and how you have meshed that with your values.

Sanne: Yeah. No, it's interesting that you said how, what is success actually? And that has been a question that I was asking myself over the past, my past years. When I started my, my career or my working life, it was really framed by what is, what is expected of me? What is defined as successful in my culture? So you were following that similar path, and then you are going to experience, is this really what I like? Is it really what feels good? And for me, after like a few years, I know this one, this is not really my cup of tea, and then you start that search process of what is it that I'm really looking for and what makes my heart tick, and what makes me drive, and am I, do I have sufficient courage to maybe shift away from the path that I initially thought I would follow?

Sanne: And we are at least, mm, let, let me take it more personal. You are often tempted to maybe compare yourself to others or to other similar people that you see as successful, but I also realize that you, you can't, everybody has their own journey with their own baggage or with their own backpack. And in terms of success, it's not like, oh, you are really good at that, or you're really good at that. It's often also defined by what you already have in your backpack, eh, what are your limiting beliefs? What are things that you face along the way and how you are you dealing with that? And that makes if you can break through or not. And for me, success is not about making a lot of money or not about climbing that career ladder. It's for me doing the things that I really love and doing that at, at the best as the best capability of what I what I can achieve.

Sanne: And I'm still struggling sometimes with the norms, like it's so tight to money. So even with when you work for yourself, you can define everything how much you work how much you earn but as soon as you start maybe working for a boss it's every time this kind of, what am I, what am I delivering? And what is that person paying for me? And there's this kind of transactional relationship that I find difficult navigating more and more maybe in the past I wouldn't, but yeah. So I have the feeling that there is something like, ah, yeah, I don't know how I, what is my opinion about it? How, what is my ideal kind of work environment? How does work look for me? Is that what, what do I want to achieve?

Sanne: And there are so many like opinions about, oh, you are not ambitious, or you are ambitious or you are doing this kind of job and have people easily put you into certain boxes. And and it requires yeah, like being true to true to yourself and really navigating that, that direction that you have, what's your purpose? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And that's something I, I really, mm, even during my journey with I Like Local that I sometimes had difficulties with you were, I was explaining what I was doing mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and in the beginning, people didn't always grab it. Right. It didn't exactly. Was pretty new. And everybody was seeing it. Like, at least it felt for me that people were thinking that as a hobby or she's doing our hobby and it's it, well, maybe not taking too seriously. But that's was my viewpoint. It was not like, it was an assumption. It was not like that people told me that it was a hobby. And there you go again. Everybody looks at the world through their own glasses mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, and yeah.

Christine: Yeah. That's a really powerful awareness. And I catch myself doing that in other aspects of my life, but I'll, I'll see something happening, have my response, assume this is, you know, someone else's response to the same situation, and then you, and you realize that you are projecting that onto them. And then when you take that into your career, it's also very interesting. And I, I think especially as entrepreneurs when your business is a startup, or especially like most of us in the travel company, in the travel industry, the last three years, when you aren't showing that stereotypical financial success, then it does make your business feel like a hobby. Or like it might be being perceived that way by somebody else because you can't hold up this thing that says, yeah. Like, how I can validate my business right here. And then you kind of start to crumble under that pressure.

Christine: Yeah. And for me, what I think, much like you were saying, like how do, how does this feel in this space? What does this look like? Like assessing it from a very different place. For me, I've realized I'm really looking at moving towards the way I want things to feel. And that's how I know it's in alignment with me. And my goal kind of has completely fallen away from a financial model. Like, I do want to earn money as an exchange for the work that I'm doing, however, like my final goal is a way that I want people to be able to move through the world and the way I want people to feel. And so then it also kind of releases what it needs to look like to get there. And I think that's the other trap that people get in, is like, you have to do it this way, then this way, then this way. Then, you know, you've gotten there and now you've done this thing called success. Yeah. And it doesn't really work at all. And so it's interesting how dedicated we are to that model of success, but I have found it really interesting that most of the women I've spoken to, when they redefine success, it is in a way that feels right to them. Right? So it's exactly is the feeling.

Sanne: Yeah. Yeah. You feel free, you feel completely yourself, you feel no pressure, you don't feel any, it, it flows. And I think that's, and that's always the, the challenge to keep on that to to ride that wave of flow, right? Mm-Hmm.

Christine: <Affirmative>. Yeah. so if we're, if we, you know, kind of look at releasing success as, you know, the typical model, then you really have to start looking at business. And I think you and I have also both tried to do this in our business. And we talked last week, I believe, a little bit about the idea of abundance. And I had shared with you that I had this kind of, I don't know, epiphany, but that there is abundance in that there is enough for everyone, but there's not enough for everyone If everyone defines abundance as having everything <laugh> mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. And so we kind of have to shift that as well and get away from thinking that I, my business has to make the most money it can to saying like, how much money does my business need to make to create the impact I wish for it to have? And support me and my colleagues. So I would love to talk to you about that. How do we, how do we shift that way of thinking in our businesses and what does that look like for you?

Sanne: Yeah. Well, it's a process, I think, and it starts with a spark. And I really resonate with you on that subject. I, and there's a two-sided thing on it. Like, I always stayed away from the investments, the traditional investment space with I Like Local as well. So I bootstrapped because I didn't really feel that recognition or with a message that the investments is always sending out like, how fast can you grow? And these are the common questions that you get at any pitch or how fast can you grow, what will be the return on investment? And of course like business need to grow in order to become sustainable that they can do the work that they do. But indeed, why should that be unlimited? Why cannot it be a certain growth that you say, well, we now create sufficient impacts, and that's really good.

Sanne: And it doesn't need to grow extensively because as we have seen, that often goes at cost of people and planet. Wrong choices are then made. And I think we came now to points where we can pivot that. And the pandemic has shown, like, and that process was already going on before, of course, but the world has shown that it's enough. We have reached the limits. We are required to define new things, define how we produce food, how we consume, how we travel. It's in all the areas of life actually. And and I think you cannot really ship things from one moment to another really rapidly, especially when it comes to a human behavior. So it needs to start with a few people that has this kind of idea or start to try out and, and spread the word and come together and create, like, this kind of one drop becomes like a, a wave and becomes the ocean.

Sanne: So I think that's what at this moment is happening. And therefore, I'm very curious, like if you look like 20 years from now in, in the future, or maybe 30 even when we look back, like what kind of, what was happening around now? What, and what, so what kind of new world did we come to? Did we, were we able to shift or, or not? So yeah, I think it's very important that people speak up. And that's something I find difficult too. Like sometimes, yeah, LinkedIn is a great like, channel and you see some amazing yeah. Messages and, and thoughts that people share and yeah. And sometimes you think, oh, yeah, how, how do you speak up and where do you get the courage from? And that you, so yeah. There again, you go into that kind of inner self as well so that everything is interrelated as you know. Yeah. 

Christine: I think it's really interesting cuz it feels like the, the shift that I'm feeling or I think I'm seeing, but I am with you on, I can't wait to look back at this and see what is really happening. Cuz we, we can't have that broader vision right now, but is kind of like you said this inward first to outward. And I think that's also where, you know, success is crumbling. The idea of business model is crumbling because in both those places, you can't be self first. Like you have to be employee first. You have to be performance first. You have to be all these outward facing things. And I think, you know, I think a lot of the communities that you and I engage in are really talking about how we have to kind of unpack these things within ourselves first and then put them into our business and put that into action.

Christine: And that will automatically shift how we're showing up and what we're creating. Yeah. But I think it's also a really uncomfortable time for people in business that maybe haven't done that on a personal level before because business is kind of is asking that of us. And I've had this conversation around like d e I and inclusion and you know, just looking at some of those issues you are having to look at like systemic issues. But then you also, like you said, what's in your backpack? What do you already believe about these things? What have you been taught? What's your environment been around these topics? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and you can't really address them in your business until you've addressed them in yourselves. Yeah. And so it's such an uncomfortable time for people because we are now having to be ourselves at work, and we haven't done that before.

Sanne: Yeah. And that's, that's scary. Of course. And we are human beings and in that way we are afraid that we might lose the pack or that we are not included. But I think it's time to we have to, we have to. 

Christine: Yeah, I agree. And I think when, if we look at this from, I guess a, a wider lens, even if we're gonna shift the narrative in the travel industry, what do you see as kind of the dominant narrative right now? And where would you like to see us heading? Or where do you think perhaps we are heading?

Sanne: Yeah. Well, I find it still very difficult. I have the feeling that, hmm, that urgency is seen. So the travel industry sees that something needs to change, but how do you do that on a on a large scale? How can you make these shifts? Do we, how can you activate certain players? Whereas most of the dominant players are still very profit focused, not impact focused. So yeah. And, and, and that's a difficult thing, right? So at the end, I still think it comes down to certain people stepping up, being able to collaborate or gather the right people in order to make these shifts. And with these shifts, it's exactly what you are saying. It first comes from the inner. So you have an entrepreneur who has an inner kind of vision or drive or whatever, then he or she creates a company, a business, and start to execute in that maybe new way.

Sanne: And that means maybe in for us also, like, but that's also a process. It's not going to happen from one day to another. So what's the foundation of businesses in general now? It's still very much profit focused, money focused and slowly you see things happening where companies start looking at how can, how can we make the how can we shift from a shareholder ownership to stakeholder ownership model? And how do we then distribute money? How can we put our ego aside in, in terms of what you often see are these big bonuses that the corp the, the, the CEOs, et cetera, are earning. How can you make sure that you are not driven by earning getting these bonuses, but sit still think like, okay, how can we more share it? That's at the end what we need to do, not like me, me, me, but how can we share the abundance that is there with the world? Yeah. And then again, I come back to having people, individuals who let organizations that could pave the way and, and, and be like pioneers that showcase, oh, well, this is possible and we can't. And that will probably go slowly, very slowly. But the fact that there is already this inside and that there is this kind of will to act, I think that's the first step that needs to happen.

Christine: Yeah. You kind of mentioned just really briefly about kind of collaborating and trying to figure out how we can work more together. And I think as entrepreneurs and business owners who create kind of from this place of passion within ourselves and this core of our being, we get really excited about what we're going to create and the change we wanna create, which I think is all really important. But we all of a sudden, or not all of a sudden at some point, like we realize how hard it is to do this by ourselves. And there's so many of us doing similar heart driven things like in parallel to one another. And we have talked a little bit about how do we maybe shift that into co-creating and figuring out how that we can in like magnify our impact instead of like, it needing to be our own, like releasing that part of ourselves that really wants it to have our name on it and realize that the in goal is more important than us.

Sanne: Yeah. Like getting there. Yeah. True. And I have often thought the same. I I am a single founder, it was never by choice. It was happening. And yeah, that's also like how sometimes things align or another line or it needs to happen for a reason. And I often thought like, okay, why are there more and more similar companies, like, I Like Local, and and most of them are still small. Is there not a way that we can merge or that we can combine? And yeah, like when with I Like Local, I did the campaign because we needed to raise money because of COVID. And we knew at some point it would be very challenging, but as said before, I wanted to stay away from that traditional investment space, and then there are not really many options left.

Sanne: And I was very inspired by a couple of economists and journalists who started questioning about like, how is this ownership model that we currently apply to most of the companies, is there a way that we can shift that, that we can change it, that we can maybe create more like a community where you all work together towards this bigger goal? And I was very inspired by that kind of message. And it brought me to a journey where I started looking to a different kind of model for I Like Local. So I spoke to various online companies that applied like co-op models, like cooperative models, but then online, which was at that time pretty new. So there weren't really many out there and not many even in the travel industry to really understand, okay, could this be maybe working? But my conclusion on that was that it's still very challenging because it's very time consuming.

Sanne: And so I thought, Hmm, that's not really it. And at the end I defined like, okay, it's kind of kind of mood board or like a drawing or is that like, Hmm, we have various stakeholders in our space. How can we really co-create instead of having a transactional relationship? And so with that, we created a new that campaign that we launched December last year, where we set people can become co-owners. So even our host, the communities that we work with and some bring in money and some don't, depending on what is their capability. And and I, I noticed it was very new, so for some people immediately grabbed it, and of course, I, I knew that it would be challenging. So we spend a lot of time in communicating it in the right way. What kind of words are you using?

Sanne: What kind of imagery? How can you explain it in the best way possible? But yeah, some people immediately got it, some didn't. And at the end, the conclusion was that with the campaign, we didn't race sufficiently, so I had to look for something else. So I felt like, okay, this could be an opportunity, really merge with a similar like-minded company. Or that there is another company that has this kind of similar mission that is interested in acquiring. But again, everybody was still like pro pre post covid had a few chats and yeah. So although there is this kind of interest and willingness and insight, apparently for more people who say, well, why is everybody doing the thing? It's, it, it appears to still be quite challenging to combine forces and say, well, I drop everything and let's start from scratch again.

Sanne: So yes, I, I totally hear you. And I would love to see that we can maybe more collaborate with one another, but I also don't have the solution. Like, how is that by creating a network? Is that by or is that by some founders saying, well, I think now the time is to pick this brand because we think that has the highest chance of maybe impact of success. So I will join and I will bring in my resources that I that I generated. I don't know, but I agree. Yeah, that will be an ideal thing.

Christine: Yeah. I think it'll, it'll be really interesting to see how that could evolve in the future. Cuz I, I also think we're not alone in that conversation. And I think the evolution of where many businesses are, and again, in the tourism industry right now, after what we've come through, I, I do think people are just kind of looking around and saying, what's the next way of being that's gonna allow us to succeed, have impact, and still be able to thrive personally, because it, it has been such a, a trying time for many businesses and business owners.

Sanne: Yeah, true.

Christine: Well, I, I would love to hear a little bit more about your work at I Like Local, and I know also that you have recently started working with another similar concept of brand called Resi Rest. And so I would love to just kind of hear what, where you started and, and where you kind of see yourself going in this evolution right now.

Sanne: Yeah. so with I Like Local, we were creating really unique experiences based on what I as a traveler always loved to do. Having dinner with a local family or learning or hearing stories firsthand from from, from generation to generation or learning sort of handcrafts or learn about places that are not in the guidebooks that ha only locals know, or about more ceremonies or the cultural aspects. And so for me, I had a very clear vision on what type of experiences I wanted to have on the platform. And the platform was b2c so directly to to consumers. And initially, I collaborated a lot with community-based tourism organizations, with NGOs, but also with individuals. So it were most of the time middle class income people to a little bit lower income class. And at some point I realized, well, if we want to make it truly inclusive and really make the impact where we can make the biggest impact, then we should include that group who don't have, who still don't have access, not because there, there is not a tool, but because they lack either English language skills or the internet access.

Sanne: So in, in that, that they are excluded in that way. How can we include them too? So in 2018, 2019, I started a partnership with Action Aid. Action Aid is also like a global NGO, similar to Oxfam. And they were really interested in how can we create like an additional income stream for the communities that they, that we work with. And most NGOs are focused on basic needs. So for them it was the same focused on health or education or agriculture, but how could we really make them more sustainable and, and become more like create this add additional income stream. So that partnership kicked off around that time. And yeah, we received a grant from from a grant provider, and we were supposed to kick off the project in 2020, but of course then everything came to a hold.

Sanne: So that was like, we were for us, like 2080, 2090 2020 were the times that we noticed a growth also in, in terms of recognition more awareness about like impact making in the travel space and how can you do it and how can we create scale in doing that. So with I Like Local, I was at the end not possible to care to, to realize that that impact and the growth that we wanted. So I started looking for organizations with that similar kind of mission, and that's how I found Resi Rest. And I already knew here from pretty from the beginning. And what he did really well, they were a B2C before too in 2017, and they only focused on one type of experience, only having dinner with the local family. So that was their core, very simple, very focusednbut he realized that it was quite a difficult model to realize that growth.

Sanne: And what's nice with the marketplace is that impact and money goes hand in hand, and the more money you earn, the more impact you make. So he shifted to a business to business model, so he started creating experiences exclusively for travel organizations. And that really made the trick. So he saw a rapid growth in the number of bookings that was way more predictable as well because bookings normally come in like way early than when a traveler is booking maybe one day or two days before. So yeah, they did really well in 2019. And then of course, for everybody was, was the rest is a similar kind of story, and they're now picking up again. And yeah, so I've recently joined them really to, to make their growth to the, to the next, to, to bring that to the next level.

Sanne: So most focus of them was, was on the Dutch market, so working with Dutch providers now to transition to the German market too. And the next will be the UK and the US market that we find travel partners that say, well, I really believe in this kind of concept, and this could be a way how we could contribute in making the impact too. And that they can include it in their EER and Resi Rest is now also slowly shifting not only from food experiences, but also to multi-day experiences to complete working with their local partners.

Christine: Yeah, it's always so interesting to see just the evolution of a company, and I think it's also really in the tourism space too. It does seem like it can happen maybe faster than in some other organizations or bigger companies like it, it's just, it's really neat to see people say like, okay, this is working. Let's add this, this doesn't work. Let's go this direction now let's add this in. They, it seems like there's a little bit more fluidity, especially in smaller brands, which is where sometimes I think it, it's really amazing to see, and I think there's such a need for smaller businesses in the travel industry. And I had like, at the beginning of the pandemic was sinking, you know, I know so many people that are solopreneurs, you know or have very small companies. And I thought like my, and my initial, my initial just was like, oh my gosh, this is it.

Christine: Like this is where we die. We can't get through whatever this is. And that's when I thought, whatever this is is gonna be like a couple months, you know? And then I really started to see that we have a lot of agility and we didn't have huge payrolls to leverage for months and months and months, and we didn't have to lay off people and we could get creative really quickly and start doing other projects to support our communities or like tap into our other strengths to kind of like, get through this period. And now those strengths have been integrated into the business you have. And so I think it's, so it's really amazing to see like the shape of things for smaller businesses.

Sanne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's true. They definitely are capable of making these shift faster than the, the big ones. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Christine: And I think if, you know your value set and kind of going to where we started, like your personal values and then your brand values and the, the far reaching impact that you're working towards, again, it's like, it doesn't really matter A, B, C, D, E to get there. It's that you know where you started and you know where you're going. Yeah. And then you just find your way somehow, and it's coming from that place of passion and that direction and Yeah. Yeah. It allows for something unique to happen.

Sanne: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it really requires trust as well. Trust is the process. So sometimes you can have indeed that kind of idea this is how I get there, this is the path that I need to take. And then some of these things happen that takes you out of balance. They say, oh, this was not how I imagined it. And you need to grab yourself again and say, well, I trust the process. If my end goal is this and it feels good, and I have really trust in the end goal, then I trust, I trust the process. But it's difficult. <Laugh>. Yeah. It's not, it sounds really easy. You have to trust the process. Everything is happening at the right time, but yeah, when you get to certain points you say, I don't know, <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. True.

Christine: Yeah. It definitely does sound a lot easier than it feels a lot of the time. And I think yeah, that's definitely a part of that is just knowing when you get to those parts where it is a struggle that you didn't anticipate or, you know, you come up some against something really difficult to be able to, to hang in there. And I know a lot of people will kind of say it in a way that sounds poetic and beautiful and flowing and easy, and it's, it isn't that, like there's a part, there's a piece of that that's happening, but it doesn't mean it feels like that at all times.

Sanne: <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. True, true. Yeah. Yeah.

Christine: <Laugh>. Well, before we end our conversation, I wanna just give you a moment to share if they're how people can get in contact with you to learn more about Resi Rest or if they're just curious in talking to you about some of these topics or if anyone's interest was piqued about these ideas of co-creation and shifting the narrative where they can have some of these conversations.

Sanne: Yeah, I think LinkedIn, I think that's maybe one of the easiest or otherwise you can always reach me at sanne @ ilikelocal.com or sanne @ rest.com, both possible. Yeah. And I accept like, I am really passionate about trying to make the shift and, and I know I have co-creation and collaboration is key in that. So I'm, I'm really open to if it resonates with anyone to be in touch and have a chat and see yeah. What we can do.

Christine: Yeah. I am really optimistic that I think there's so many people that are exploring things like this and having the conversations and like, you know, we've said it several times, the more of us that can get together and figure out how to do this either collaboratively or just in support of one another as greater communities, I think it's so important. The last thing I have is just a series of seven rapid fire ish questions, <laugh> to end our conversation. So the first one is, what are you reading right now?

Sanne: Ah, it's yeah, it's a Dutch book actually. It's a book about like a writer who is reflecting on her mother's life and she's from Indonesia. So that's what I'm currently reading.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. And what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel your real backpack, not your metaphorical <laugh>? Oh, yeah.

Sanne: What is always I, yeah. Ah, I think it's still my phone. <Laugh>.

Christine: To Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there. Where is a place that you would love to sojourn?

Sanne: Where would be a place? Oh, that's very yeah. Recently said, I, we would love to move abroad again. Yeah. We have lived in various countries and, but at this moment there is not like one, one particular country that is calling. But we have this kind of vision where we would like to live someday more operate or with a community with like-minded people where we, not like a spiritual community or, or like a, a permaculture or whatever, but really a community that really connects, could create like businesses have this co-creation, creation really everything combined, what is currently happening and where it exactly is, at least in a warm place, <laugh>. Yeah. And whatever that destination is, it's yeah. It's not clear yet.

Christine: Yeah. Well, that sounds amazing, and I would be with you on the warm places. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been?

Sanne: Indian food? I've lived in India for for some time, and was my first destination outside of Europe, so it had a big impact.

Christine: Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?

Sanne: Ooh, ah, yeah. Actually, I don't really have one particular person in mind. Most of the time. There are people who have the courage to stand up, have females or males, not really one in particular, but by hearing more of these stories, you find the courage yourself too.

Christine: Yeah. I love that. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?

Sanne: Ah I would like, love to, to go to the other side. I recently said to my husband. I said I would, I would be amazing if I could time travel back in time. I would like to relive how it was certain places. And I would love to go by myself. <Laugh>. Yeah. Not with anyone. Yeah. I know, I, it sounds maybe silly, but I realize when you travel by yourself, you are mostly connected with yourself as well. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And I had the chance to do that once for quite some time, and I really enjoyed that. So, yeah.

Christine: I think probably traveling with your true self, maybe like traveling with another person because it's someone you don't really know yet or maybe don't fully Yeah.

Sanne: Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah.

Christine: <Laugh>. Soul of Travel is about celebrating women who are creating an impact in the travel industry. Who is one woman that you admire and would like to recognize in this space?

Sanne: Hmm. I'm pretty bad at names. And what is a woman that I really admire in this space? 

Christine: Or if there's another brand or company that comes to mind that, that you think is inspirational?

Sanne: Hmm. Hmm. I find it very difficult right now, <laugh> to, to pick one. Yeah.

Christine: Well if you, when you can always share it with me and I'll be happy to, to share it out in the community later. Yeah.

Sanne: I know it's hard to, I'll do <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh>.

Christine: Well, Sanne, I really appreciate this conversation and you being so open to just talk about things in kind of such an exploring way, and, you know just passion-driven and curious way. I think that these kind of conversations are the things that shift things forward just when we ask more questions and know that there's something else out there and we're not sure yet, but like, that's what gets the needle moving in that direction. So I really appreciate you sharing this space with me in that way.

Sanne: Yeah, thank you too. I really enjoyed this conversation. It reminds me that I should have more of these conversations with people across the world because it gives a lot of energy and strength and trust. Yes. Thank you. Thank you too.