Dancing Our Way into Connection through Slow Travel with Mickela Mallozzi

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Mickela Mallozzi.

Mickela is the four-time Emmy-winning host of Bare Feet with Mickela Mallozzi, a travel series highlighting the diversity of dance that airs on PBS nationwide and on Amazon Prime around the world. A professional dancer and trained musician, Mickela decided to start a journey around the world, taking her camera with her to follow dance in the lives of everyday people wherever she went. From rediscovering her family’s heritage in southern Italy to dancing tango on the mainstage in Buenos Aires, Mickela’s series covers her adventures as she experiences the world one dance at a time. She has been featured in the New York Times, Oprah Magazine, Forbes, AFAR, and more, and she has performed on various television shows–including Sesame Street.

Christine and Mickela discuss:

· The way Mickela has been able to bring her love for travel and dance together
· Inspiring others to seek out local performances and dance culture
· The types of connections that slow travel allows
· Building your dream job and how much goes on behind the scenes
· Why it’s so important to be relatable and authentic as we share our journey 

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Mickela Mallozzi.

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

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Visit Bare Feet with Mickela Mallozzi at https://www.travelbarefeet.com/.

Book your Bare Feet Tour with Mickela to see the world through the lens of music and dance.

Get your copy of Your Brain on Art, Mickela’s current read.

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Looking for ways to be a part of the Lotus Sojourns community? Learn more here!

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Mickela Mallozzi (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel.

In this episode, I'm excited to welcome our guest just in time to celebrate International Dance Day. Mickela Mallozzi is the four time Emmy award-winning host and executive producer of Bare Feet with Mickela Mallozzi, a travel series highlighting the diversity of dance, which airs on PBS stations nationwide and on Amazon Prime. Globally, a professional dancer and trained musician Mickela's decided to start a journey around the world taking her camera with her to follow dance in the lives of everyday people wherever she went from rediscovering her family's heritage in southern Italy to dancing Tango on the main stage in Buenos Aires. The series covers Mickela's adventures as she experiences the world one dance at a time. She has been featured in the New York Times, Oprah magazine, Conde Nast Traveler Dance Magazine, Forbes, the Washington Post, afar Media and more, and she has performed on various television shows including Sesame Street. In our conversation, Mickela and I talk about the way she has been able to bring her love for travel and for dance

Christine: Together to inspire others to seek out the local performances, celebration and dance culture that she loves. We also talk about the types of connection, the slower travel allows her to create building your dream job and how much goes on behind the scenes and why it is so important to her to be relatable and authentic as she shares her journey. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Mickela Mallozzi.

Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm your host Christine, and I'm very excited today to be joined by Michela Mallozzi, who is the host of Bare Feet. And we were introduced last year just about this time at Women's Travel Fest, and I have been a big fan of your show. I love being able to show it to my daughters and tell them that I've met you because that makes me feel extra special, but they also think it's really cool and they love dance and they love travel, so it's like the perfect show for them to learn about the world. But we're going to get into all of that in just a moment. First, I want to just turn it over to you to introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little bit more about you and your program.

Mickela: Yeah, thank you Christine, and great to see you again. I know, I can't believe it's been a year and yeah, bare Feet is a travel series where I like to say I make new friends by dancing with strangers. So in every destination I learn the dance in music from the people of that place, whether that's Tango and Buenos or I'm learning hip hop in the Bronx and everywhere in between. I've been doing this, I started this project 14 years ago almost to the day, and it's been an incredible journey. We're in pre-production. We start filming season seven very soon, which is a miracle in itself. When I think about it, it's just like I can't believe we made it this far, but it's a real honor and privilege to be able to share what I love so much. Not only am I the host of the show, but I'm the executive producer and creator of the show, and so this is sort of my brainchild and passion project and insanity idea, and we're still kicking and it's been a joy. It's been a real joy.

Christine: Yeah, thank you and congratulations. I know what it takes to keep something like this going, not on the scale of what you're doing, but anything that's such a passion project and then you add travel and you add production. There's so many pieces that it's just a constant effort to keep everything juggled, so kudos to being able to live that true passion and keep bringing it to the rest of us to enjoy as well. And I know we'll talk a little bit more about that alignment of life and living and career as we get into this. I know that's something that you're so lucky to do and to do well, but what I first want to hear from you about is where you got into travel. Was that something that happened for you really early on or was that something that happened later in your life?

Mickela: Yeah, so I come from a family of immigrants. My parents were both born in southern Italy and I grew up with my grandparents on a phone call every Sunday. We'd call Italy and talk to my Nanni my every Sunday, and I got a passport when I was really young. I was two years old when I made my first international trip. We didn't travel often, but when we did, it was to my grandparents' house. So I maybe traveled under the age of 18, maybe three or four times to Italy, and it was this beautiful experience of immersing myself in the culture. They were my family, but also it was work. I do a lot of speaking engagements and I always have this slide up of me slaughtering a chicken with my grandmother. I'm two years old in our little farm, and that was travel for me.

It was this very immersive, it wasn't like we go to the beach and go on vacation and my family, we would spend almost a month there because we were helping work on the farm. And for my family to spend all that money to take our family, all four of us to Italy was very expensive. So that to me was like travel. That's what travel meant, and it kind of stuck with me for the rest of my life in that I don't just go and do nothing on a trip. I have to constantly be part of the community or part of the people, and that's translated into what bare feet is today. Fast forward, my very first international trip on my own was when I was 18. A dear friend of mine from high school, his father was getting remarried in Scotland, and so there was a huge American contingent that was coming over to Scotland, and I don't remember any.

I remember being really nervous. I don't remember the flight, I don't remember landing in Edinburgh. I don't remember all the logistical parts, but there was a moment in the wedding where all these Americans were coming over and they were teaching us a kale, which is basically the grandfather of square dancing to prepare us for the wedding the next day. And that stuck with me. I mean, that's what I do for bare feet is I had so much joy. We were in this little sheep farm barn and we're dancing to a little CD of learning this kale, and me and my friend were dancing with all these other people and I was like, this is the most amazing experience of my life. And since then I've been chasing that high and that joy of replicating that first kind of bare feet moment really in my life.

I also had the privilege of studying abroad in college for summer, and that was an amazing experience in Florence and caught the travel bug and just would work and save up money. So I could travel at least once a year when I became a dance teacher. I used travel to start teaching internationally and would kind of use it as a hub. So I really wanted to use work and play kind of interchangeably when I could. And I traveled inexpensively. I'm not independently wealthy. Travel doesn't have to be expensive. And over the years I found that because if I would go to a destination where I couldn't speak the local language, I would use dance to connect with people. And whether that was in a street fair or a holiday or street celebrations, I'm dancing with these folks and then all of a sudden I'm invited into their home for a family lunch.

Or one time we were salsa dancing in Mumbai Indian that were dancing with all these people and they're like, it's my brother's wedding tomorrow. And we went to this Bollywood wedding the next day, and it was dance that led me to all these other magical experiences, not just the dancing. The dancing was brilliant and fun and so wonderful, but it was what came out of it that spawned bare feet. And like I said, that started when I was 18 on that very first trip was dance was this way of joyfully connecting with complete strangers. That's why when I say I make new friends by dancing with strangers, it's true. I've made all these communities of friends throughout the world just because I danced with them. So travel has always been a part of my life in one way or another. I think just my mom, I remember actually she was a travel agent for a while in the eighties when I was a kid. I never went to daycare. She always took me around everywhere and I used to sit under her desk reading all the brochures with the airplanes, and I just loved travel and it stuck with me. I can't get rid of it. I love it so much.

Christine: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that. And I feel like I can definitely see that when I watch your show. I can see that connection and we're going to talk even more about that later, how that happens. But it is really magical, those moments. And then as you were sharing the childhood moments of traveling and especially working while you travel, it reminded me of taking my daughters. We went to France earlier or last summer, and one of their very favorite things was visiting a friend of mine and staying in her home. And his family had been for, I think they said six or seven generations, beekeepers and farmers in that area. So they had historic buildings and properties and all of this land, and we went and we met the bees and saw where they bottled it, and all these different family members would come in and they each had all these different roles.

And my kids, they were so blown away by seeing how that kind of a business ran, but also by being a part of the experience and just by far, that was one of their very favorite experiences because I think they felt so deeply a part of something. They felt belonging and they also felt like home even though we were halfway around the world. And I think that's something that's even more special when we travel to have that experience. And I know you mentioned a lot of people will think about travel as being a place to relax and unwind and do nothing and much like you, I'm like, oh, but there's so many opportunities to do the something. There's so much here to see and do and so many people to meet. So I love how you shared how that has shaped all of these future experiences.

Mickela: Yeah, it's funny not to discredit people relaxing because I started just when I hit 40, finally realizing I also do need to make time for rest. That has been a learning curve for me in life in general, but I still do it in places that are very easygoing and very much integrated in the community as much as I can. But I am realizing like, wow, I need rest too. I need to just sit on the beach and do nothing for a couple days at least, or maybe a week. Your body needs that. So not to discredit it, but my go-to is to be busy. Always, always.

Christine: Yeah. No, I definitely relate to that. And my favorite also is a hammock and a book. That's one of my very favorite travel experiences, and I have to remember to put that in there so that I won't get carried away. And I think when you were talking about work is travel and travel is work, that is also hard, right? Because you don't want to miss the moment. That could be the perfect thing for work when you're just trying to be, have you had a hard time finding that balance when you travel? Because every moment is really an opportunity for you to be discovering the next thing that might be the right story to tell, or you are telling the story as you're traveling. I know many bloggers and writers and content creators and even travel designers find themselves in that dilemma of how to be more present as a traveler and not as someone who's in the career of travel.

Mickela: I have to say it was really hard at the beginning because at the beginning I was doing everything. I was filming myself, I was writing, I was more of a blogger, I was creating YouTube videos. Now it's a very separated system. I have a crew that I hire and we have to work well in advance of preparing all of the shoots and the storylines, and we work with the destination. So it's a very different beast from when bare feet started. It's the same mission. Our mission is always to connect with the world through dance and music and the people that I get to meet. But I feel very lucky that I think it was almost detrimental. It was necessary. It was like this necessary evil to constantly be on and working. When I was starting out, I needed to create content, and I was so driven, and I was so inspired and excited by this idea.

And then over the years, I've realized in order to have, and there is no such thing as a work-life balance, it just doesn't really exist. And I'm not even a mother, so I don't even know what that whole thing is. But I do understand that I realized I had to treat this a nine to five like a job. Granted when we're filming it's 12 hour, 14 hour shoot day, so I can't treat it like a nine to five when I'm on shoots, but I love to put my phone down. I'm also very lucky that I have a whole film crew filming my entire experience, so I don't need to document everything personally. I have a team that does that because it's all of our jobs. It's a collective job that we're creating a piece, a very specific piece, and then we create some digital content. But when I travel for fun, I usually don't take that many photos or not as much because I really want to be present. I really want to remember these experiences with this lens versus this lens.

And it's been beautiful. It's been a real learning curve. I was so used to thinking, oh, I have to document it and post it right away so that I can build a following and create this brand. And then at some point I really had to be very conscious of this is my job. Let's keep this very separate from when I'm not working. But of course I meet someone, I'm like, oh, this would be a great feature in an episode. I'll give them my card and I'll follow up with them. I'm not going to try and film them on the spot. That's just not how we work. But yeah, the first half of the time, so the first seven years, six, seven years of creating this project was, that was me never understanding when I could shut myself off or turn off. And I found that that was really detrimental to the people around me that loved me and that were in my life and in my intimate circle.

So I really had to make a conscious decision of, okay, I can't do this. It's not sustainable. It's not fun for me. At some point it wasn't becoming fun, and also it wasn't fun for the people and the people that love me around me. Yeah, I mean that's the reality of it. It's a job. This is work. I have friends that kind of fun at me. You're always on vacation. I'm like, if you only knew, only knew the amount of work that goes into, they don't really say it anymore. Now they see the fruits of my labor, but it was constantly this like, oh, you're always on vacation. And no, that's not the truth, but there has to be a time when you turn it off. Yeah. I also don't consider myself an influencer. I'm not creating content solely for Instagram or videos that are based off of phone content or smaller content. And again, no discredit to people who do that. They're killing it. They're making incredible content, but we are a different medium and a different way of storytelling, and it's a much longer process. We're in pre-production. We've been in pre-production for season seven starting from November of last year, so 2023. This new season won't come out until early 2025. So we have to film, we edit, we storyboard, we do the whole thing. And yeah, that's the reality of what I do.

Christine: Yeah, thank you for behind the scenes of that as well. That was one of the questions I had for later on and trying to understand that. I do think that's a question that people in travel get a lot because it's such an magical industry no matter what part of it that you're in, because people do love to travel and explore the world, and so they get really drawn to a career in it, and they do kind of think because when they travel, they're on vacation, that that must be kind of what our experience is constantly, and it's such a different feeling. And even I just was actually looking at your schedule and all of your travel and thinking, gosh, what does she do if she gets sick? I've been sick, I was telling you for the last month. And then I'm like, you have to use your voice. I do. And I just started thinking about some of those more logistical details that we don't always think about in this beautiful depiction of this work. And I'm sure me, you've also been someplace and been dreadfully ill, and it's not very fun. That's some of the real reality that people don't understand and constant time changes and language changes, and it can be very jarring, and it is a lot more grueling than people might imagine.

Mickela: Yeah, there's a real thing. Your adrenaline's pumping. I get sick very easily, so when I travel, I always wear a mask. If I'm on a train or I read the subway all the time, I live in New York City, you can see a building behind me right now. If I'm on a train and I hear someone coughing or they're visibly ill, I leave. I go to another car because I'm like, I can't afford to be sick. I'm probably flying within a week somewhere and I do get sick. So I just have to be very conscious. I bring like I'm so prepared when I'm on a trip just in case I do get sick, but it is, I think there's this real idea or this real thing that happens when your body's nose when it needs to be on. And so every time without fail, as soon as we finish filming the last production day of a shoot, I get home and I'm in bed for three weeks because my body's like, okay, screw you. You've been treating us like crap, and now this is what you're going to feel like. Or as soon as we deliver the last episode to PBS, my body's like, okay, you're done for the next month. It burnout's real. Your body knows when you don't have anything else to do, and they're like, you can finally rest and your adrenaline's gone. You've just depleted everything. So again, it's not the healthiest way to do things, it's just what happens because I think I'm not clocking in every day to a regular job.

There's a reason I don't clock in every day to a regular job. I didn't want to. I created this job. I created this project that I am so in love with and feel so lucky that it still exists and that people actually still watch it. And without fans and viewers and also supporters and sponsors and funders like this show wouldn't exist. So it is not for the faint of heart. I get so many emails every week of like, Hey, I want to do what you do. Can I pick your brain? Or how do you do this? How do I make a show on PBS? How do I get a show on TV? Or how do I get any of these questions? And my sister's such a, she's amazing. And I call her sometimes when I'm frustrated with things and I'm so glad that people feel inspired by my work, but she's like, you make it look easy.

And that's a compliment when people are just like, I want to do what you do. I love traveling and I think I have a knack for it. And then they don't want to do the work when they find out all the work that comes from it. So I'm like, well, that's a great compliment, but at the same time, it's like I just do it. I didn't know what I was doing. I had to figure it out. I had no TV background, no hosting background. And yeah, I mean, I mentor a lot of people. I love helping out folks, especially if I see myself in them, a little bit of myself in them. I'm like, yeah, this person really wants to do something and they have a great idea. And you can tell that there's passion behind it. But yeah, I get countless emails of just like, how do I do what you do? Do you have a good idea for me? I mean, I've had people say, do you have any ideas for me? I don't even respond to those emails.

Christine: Yeah, that's really hard. You have to be so attached to the idea that you are going to drag it up and down the mountain no matter what, because

Mickela: Well, the audacity for them to ask me no, no, no, before that is the audacity that they're asking me to help them come up with a creative idea. Yes.

Christine: Yeah,

Mickela: I'm sorry. That's just lazy and you're not doing the work, so you're not going to do the work Anyway. I've become very insular with my energy and who I surround myself with. I love being inspired by people that are just as driven as I am. And if you're not, I just don't want, I know this sounds really terrible, but I don't have the time anymore. I have limited energy. I started this project when I was 28. I am not that anymore.

Christine: I just

Mickela: Don't have that.

Christine: Yeah, I mean, I think there's so much wisdom when you're saying, and boundaries are hard for some people to receive, but there's so important for ourselves and especially as we get older and we don't have the same energy that we had and just the realization that we actually don't need to expound all of our energy. There's just that wisdom that comes as well. And I think it's important, and I love that you're able to kind of pick who you think you can mentor. And then also it's important to have the hard conversations with some people too, because people will also ask me about running trips and being a tour operator or running retreats, and they start saying, it's usually probably much like you, like the end product. It looks so magical when you're all gathered in this space and the same, you're creating this beautiful show and that connection, and I can see myself doing that. And you're like, okay, but do you want to create the passenger manifest? You want to contact customs? Do you want to figure out, there's all the stuff that you don't see on the shiny billboard that makes that happen that most people, once they hear about that, they're like, I had no idea. So I think these conversations, not to detour all people from doing

Mickela: These,

Christine: It's so great and I know that we both love it so much, but it's the

Mickela: Iceberg concept. You only see 10% of an iceberg. The other 90% you see my TV show, you see the end product. That's 10% of everything else that I do and that my team does. But I have to say, because I was getting so many emails, and just to put a plug out there during Covid, because we weren't in production, I had time, I started this thing called the Independent Producers Association of Public Media where PBS and public television needs younger voices. They need more diverse voices. And so I put, if you go to ipa public media.com, it's a free resource that I created of basically how to produce, distribute, and fund your series or your show or your documentary film so that you can distribute on public television. And it's a really insane format of distributing your show. It's not like normal television, but it's an incredible tool and audience.

It's educational, informational, and entertaining programming. I'm so proud to be part of the PBS system, but now it's there for free. So when I get emails from people, I say, good luck. Here's this website that I put out, I did myself. It's free. Read through every single piece of content. And then once you do that, then you can get back to me in maybe a month or two. It'll take you that long to get through everything. And if you have any more questions, I'm more than willing to help but do the homework. And I've had producers reach out to me that I've never met, and they're like, you don't know me. I've been using your website, and now our show is airing on PBS, and it's like, holy cow, it works. So it's there. It's there, and I'm more than happy to share it with the world. I think we need more diversity. We need different viewpoints on public television and PBS, it can't just be old white guys that it's been for such a long time. And I'm friends with a lot of those old white guys. They're very good friends of mine. I love them, but we need to have some new blood running in the PBS system for sure.

Christine: Yeah, thank you. And in just the travel storytelling space in general, I would definitely agree with that. Hey, listeners, it's Christine and I have an exciting announcement to share with you. The book Sojourn is Back in 2020, I wanted to find a way to bring women together in the absence of the travel experiences I offer with Lotus Sojourns. I wanted to create a space for connection, cultural understanding, growth, and most importantly, belonging. And it was magic, pardon the use of your lingo, Liz Gilbert. But it was big magic. We set out to read 12 books in 12 months, meeting virtually twice each month, and having deep and passionate conversations about the books and all of the lessons we were learning, showing up for each other, being real and vulnerable and supporting each other in one of the hardest times of our lives. Then we decided to do it again in 2023, we felt life speeding up and the book club was set aside.

However, over the past few months, I've spoken with so many women and I've heard something in common from many of them. They've told me things like, I'm running faster than ever in my business and in my life. I'm tired and not prioritizing myself. I feel like I need to heal. I am craving deep and meaningful connection, and I'm looking for a community of women where I feel a deep sense of belonging. And I'm here to tell you, I'm filling it to all of these fields, and I have missed the special circle of women who came together for this unique journey through the pages of inspiring books. So here we are. I'm bringing it back, and I cannot wait for you to join me for this guided journey that past members have shared is so much more than a book club. This year, we'll be taking two months to read each of the books on our list, and you can choose to join a two month, six month, or one year journey.

So I hope you'll join us as we begin our next book. I cannot wait to bring the ever-growing Soul of Travel community along on this journey. You'll find more information about the 2024 soulful book, sojourn on my Lotus Sojourns website. Just hit any of the join us buttons on the page for more information and registration. I cannot wait to share this sacred space with you. Now let's head back over to our soulful conversation. Well, I want to get a little bit more into the, I guess the why and the magic of what you're creating. And I know that obviously because this is an Emmy award-winning, pardon me, and an Emmy award-winning series. People are really resonating with the work you do and the stories you're telling. Why do you think people do think they're drawn to? Why do you think this speaks to them?

Mickela: I think for a few reasons, because, and I hear this on a daily basis, I feel lucky enough that the show truly touches people. This was something I never expected when I started bare feet. It was truly for selfish reasons. I was like, I want to learn as many dances and trying as many costumes and go to as many places around the world. It's going to be so fun. And then what happened was, along the way, dancing and music are this universality, so anybody in the world can connect whether you're a dancer or not. And most of our viewers are non dancers. They don't consider themselves dancers. It's accessible, right? It's accessible to them. So even if someone doesn't look like them on camera or doesn't sound like them or doesn't practice the same religion as them, or doesn't eat the same food, or see that, oh, that dance is bringing joy, or that dance is helping them heal through this very hard time, or I get that, I know that feeling, it resonates with me.

It's a universality. It's a universal feeling that we all have. So I think making that as the touch point for the show has been tremendous. My goal was also to show dance is accessible. You don't have to be, because in the media we only see, so you think you could dance dancing with the Stars, America's best dance crew. So you think you've got talent. These are professional, professional dancers that have been training their whole lives, which is incredible. But dance is also not that. Dance is also people in the kitchen making together and doing these incredible dances together to build a community or outside in the fields or in celebration in the streets. And it was this way of people realizing that maybe if this girl who looks like a normal person, I'm a genuinely normal looking person. And when I say normal, there's nothing flashy about my appearance or my approach.

And I think that makes it accessible too. I'm not a trained journalist. Like I said, I had no TV background or production background. So I'm technically breaking all these rules, journalism rules. I show myself crying. I'm very vulnerable on camera. I break the fourth wall a lot and I talk to camera. And the reaction I've gotten from viewers is, I feel like I'm with you. I don't feel like I'm just sitting here watching something. I feel like I'm actually with you because I'm also immersing myself in the culture through dance, right? I'm not just sitting here as this traveler, wow, look at these beautiful dancers. Isn't this an interesting culture that I've never seen? No. I get in the nitty gritty and I jump in with them head on, and I fall on my face a lot, but then I pick myself up and have a wonderful time.

And I think that's what people feel connected to. I've had people come up to me and they're freaking out and they're like, I feel like I know you're my friend because I genuinely, what you see on camera is what you get. There's no bs. There's no, I'm not an actress, can't remember lines. I'm just playing myself on television. My cousin, we were joking about this the other night when I was a kid, I used to put on shows with my other, I have a ton of cousins. I come from a big Italian family and I, we'd put on shows in my living room or in our backyard in the summers and I'd be bossy and tell them, have costumes for them to wear and direct them. And my cousin now, he's like, you're doing exactly what you used to do as a kid, and I just get paid for it.

And it's like, yeah, I get to play. I get to play. I get with the world. Not only do I get to connect with the people of the places where I'm going, but then the audience connects with me. And then what's the best play is when I get to meet those audience members in real life walking down the street or when we do our bare feet live events and we're bringing dance and music to the communities and we have them dance, and I can't be the only one having the best time of my life. I want the people that are watching the show to be inspired to either try dance or maybe try something that they love. The other reason why it resonates is because I really care. I love dance. I love music. I love connecting with people. When you see that smile on my face, it's real, so excited to be in that place.

And these people are sharing something that they love so much. So if you find something that you love in a community of doing whatever that is, painting, birdwatching, cooking, drinking, going to distilleries or breweries, whatever that is, you find your tribe and it's real joy. It's real joy. So I think it's that genuine connection. Yeah, it's like I give a shit. I really give a shit. And people see that they can read through bullshit too. It's really easy to read through that. And I'm a New Yorker. I am a no BS person. Don't don't like, it's funny, even when we film and we say the hellos, we always have our crew ready to have that genuine hello. Because we've tried it before where it's like, oh, the lighting was off or something, and we'll try it again. I'm like, we're not using this. It's not real. So we just end up doing voiceover. But when it's those real first tell us, I'm like, ah, we get to meet. I've been talking to you for months. And those are real.

Christine: Yeah,

Mickela: Yeah. It's the universality, it's the connection, it's the joy. But I think it's really the universality of it. People connect with dance and music in a instinctual way,

Christine: Right? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Even as I was preparing for our conversation and I was watching, I was thinking as the soul of travel, this is literally it, right? Dance and music is that soul of so many communities, and it's so deeply human and it's really almost primal. And so like you were saying, it breaks down everything because you can just stand next to another human and move next to another human without all of these other things that we sometimes layer upon an interaction. The other thing that I love about it, especially for me, is the way that it shares really shares the essence of a culture. Because for so many places, this is something that goes back forever within their lineage. And I feel like we miss out on this a lot in the United States because we don't have that same, everyone doesn't have the same background that is held together by a same sort of dance or commonality.

And so we have this great diversity, but we don't have this unification. And I think sometimes when you travel somewhere and you feel that deep connection that is held within dance and music, you can really drop into something really magical. And for me, that's usually with gathering with women in spaces with women. But I also definitely see that when I watch you and I see you have that moment where you're like, yes, this is like I'm really witnessing and participating in something really special. And I think maybe that also people are seeking that kind of deep connection, and that's what they get through this.

Mickela: Yeah, I mean, talking about the United States, we filmed two seasons in New York's, three seasons actually over the course of bare feet, but the last two seasons, five and six were filmed all throughout the five boroughs of New York City. And that is the beauty of the United States. Like you said, the diversity is the beauty, but it's really the access to so many different cultures. I come from an Italian-American community, which is very different from an Italian community in Italy. So coming from an immigrant community and understanding what it means to feel different growing up, but both my parents, my father especially, has a very, very thick accent. We cook in the house every meal. We don't eat out my parents, we jar tomatoes every year. I go back to Italy and harvest the olives. We're old school, but even so, we're different from people who actually live in Italy, but that's why I'm drawn to these immigrant communities here in the United States.

I feel an affinity towards that experience. I have my own experience in that, and I want to celebrate that because growing up, we celebrated it within our own community, but it wasn't always celebrated outside of that. And it's like, no, this is something really special. And it's beautiful to share with other cultures as well. It's not about being insular, it's about celebrating it on multiple levels. And I think especially for our New York seasons, that's been such a mission and especially to cultures that don't always get the attention they deserve or even featured in media at all. So that's been a real mission for our new seasons, for sure. Yeah,

Christine: I love that as well, watching some of those and just how you said, how empowering it is to put a spotlight on maybe some cultures that are not being presented in the media or are not being seen within the city or within the country, and that the dance is so often and music, it's just such a glue for so many of those experiences no matter what the music or the dance is, it's like that piece that brings people together.

Mickela: Totally, totally. A perfect example is the Garifuna community in New York. I've had New Yorkers come up to me and be like, I never knew about these people. Thank you. It was a love letter to them. And the music is amazing. The dance is amazing. And then people who aren't from that community want to try it, and they're like, now I know something about it and I know who these people are, and it's an amazing story.

Christine: And finding things around us I think is really important too, because a lot of people don't have access to international travel, but to realize, I mean, especially in New York City, that's definitely something in and of itself. But there are communities like that around us no matter where we are that we often just aren't aware of. And again, music festivals, those kinds of things are such great ways to immerse yourself for a moment in another culture within your own area. I wanted to go back when you were talking about one of the things that people really connect to is your relatability, because I think it's really important one, totally true. I love that. The few times that I've seen you at events or spoke to you in person, and then I watched the show, it's very weird. It's kind of disjoint like, that's just right. That's really real, which is great.

But then the other thing about that I think is representing women as travelers, which is I think something that is so important. Anyone who watches travel shows knows that there's very few female travel hosts, but in the industry, we know that most travel decisions are made by women. Most solo travelers are women. The dominant travelers are women. So to see women traveling is so, so important. And not only that, to see real women traveling, and honestly, I've watched you and I've thought, man, she just looks so real and it's the best compliment I'm, it makes me so happy that your hair is not super fancy. Or I will watch, and I also do this with Samantha Brown. I'm like, how do they have their haircut so that it's not being destroyed by humidity? Or what must they have packed so that they look like a real human and they can still travel because these are hard things to do as a professional traveler, but more important that is I see myself in you and I feel like I can do that too. If she can do that, that is available for me. And the same thing watching Samantha growing up. I was like, man, she's like my big sister doing these things. And a lot of my guests have said the same thing. That was the person that maybe made them feel like they had permission to also travel to all of these places. So I would love to hear from you, what have you heard along those lines with people sharing their feedback of what it's like to see someone like themself really traveling?

Mickela: So first off, big shout out to Sam, Samantha Brown. She is been a hero to all of us, any female traveler. And I can, I still can't believe she's my friend. She's a colleague of mine, she's my mentor. She's my shero. She's like, we're genuinely friends. Which is insane to me when I think about it. I remember watching one of her episodes flying on a trapeze and be like, I want to do that someday. The most amazing part about Sam is she's the biggest champion for all women. So you're right, 85% of all travel decisions are made by women. It's incredible how underserved and underrepresented we had been, and we were much more in the past. And so that's why I'm one of the co-founders of Women's Travel Fest, because we were like Kelly Lewis, who's the other co-founder, and she kept it going.

We were like, there must be a conference for women. This was, I guess now 12 years ago and there, and so we're like, we're going to start it. And we thought, who would be the most amazing keynote speaker? And we're like, Samantha Brown. And we got her, and she was lovely. She didn't know us from Adam, and she had just had her twins. And she's like, I want to be in a room filled with all these other women who feel empowered by travel. And the idea of travel is the first of its kind. So Samantha's been a real cheerleader for all of us and pave the way for all of us. And she's constantly pushing up new voices that need to be heard, whether that's in the Bipoc community, the L-G-B-T-Q community, the disability community, anybody, not just women. She is a champion. So flowers to Sam, we love her, and she's just, she's changed all our lives.

What was your question? Oh, what is the feedback? Yeah, this is what I'm most proud of, is that my audience is just as diverse as the people I feature on my show. That's the truth. When I first started the project, a lot of my fans looked like me. And then as our stories became more diverse and my stories were going out to different audiences, it was the people that didn't look like me, that felt connected to me, that was even more impactful. This is amazing. This is amazing that our stories are touching all these folks, no matter what background, no matter what socioeconomic background, no matter what age, no matter what ethnicity they identify with, no matter what gender or sexuality they identify with. It's incredible. So I think, again, giving a platform, because my show has grown over the years of yes, people feel like I'm their friend.

I am genuinely having the best time of my life making this show. And I hope that comes through because I really am just, it's so fun. But at the same time, featuring cultures and dances and people that they recognize and see as part of their own community. And this little girl's going in there and she's jumping right in. So if they like her and they think she's okay, maybe she is okay. I think that's how it kind of works is, and I don't even think about it that way. I'm just like, I just want to try as many dances and these people are amazing and we've become friends because what you don't see is all the calls back and forth of setting up the shoots and planning out the ideas of what we're going to feature and how this pans out in the whole story of the episode.

So again, they become my friends. These are people that I can pick up the phone and I go see them make music and play, especially here in New York, the international ones, it's harder to stay in touch, but I do. And I think that's where it's the accessibility. The accessibility of not being so distanced from the culture. Because most travel hosts, and when I talk about, there was an interesting article in the New York Times, it was like the problem with celebrity travel shows are the celebrities. And it's true because a lot of these people don't travel like a normal human being. I don't travel like they do. I made this show because this is how I traveled for fun. And a lot of these folks travel business class, have been traveling business class forever.

They don't know how to relate to people. My biggest pet peeve is when a show is in a destination, here's my friend who's an ex-pat living in whatever city, international city, and it's like you can't even find someone who's from there and lives there. And this is part of their culture. You can't even do that bare minimum. It drives me nuts. It's always an ex-pat friend, fine, have an ex-pat friend, but feature someone who's from there. And I think there's this, it's hard to show connection on camera. It's harder than people think. And when they try and do it, they're like, damn, it is really hard. So it's sort of like before you even start thinking of an idea of creating content, can you go and travel and connect with folks on a basic level, do that when you're traveling, do that when you're traveling in your own backyard. Go talk to the guy at your favorite bodega. Go talk to your guy that you in your favorite coffee shop, in your own neighborhood. Can you have conversation with people? And I think that's what we're missing is connection. People feel more connected with this, but they don't know how to have a connection in human IRL in real life. And it's building that muscle and flexing that muscle.

And I think that's why people are also drawn to this show because if you meet me on the, I say hello, I'm a New Yorker, but I say hello and good morning to people who I am, and people get a smile on their face and what's the best sound to hear is your name? So when I meet people, whether it's a bartender or a barista, a cafe or anybody, I always ask their name or a fan. I always introduce myself because they know who I am. I don't know who they are. They're a complete stranger to me. So it's like just hearing them hearing their name, they're like, oh, that person cares about me. Simple things, simple, really simple things. I don't know if that answered your question. That kind of went on tangent.

Christine: That's always the best part. That's why we have an hour long podcast. The tangents are like the magic. But I totally agree, and I do think it's the connection. People really miss it. I mean, we are beholden to our digital world that we live in and we really miss connection. And even watching someone else experience connection feels like it's possible. It feels like a part of our soul is longing for that. And so it's beautiful and we witnessed that beauty, and I think that's what is really important. And I also love that you brought up, I was just reading the same article as well about celebrity hosts, and then I was reading an article about Padma Lakshmi and kind of her show that she's doing and how she was trying to really be conscious of not being a celebrity in the experience and just trying to use her platform, but to bring other people into that space. And yeah, I think that's also something we just have to think of in travel storytelling is really just thinking about the space that we're holding and creating. And there's so many pieces of it, and I think we learn more and more every year about how to do it better and how to create more equality and storytelling. And I think it's always great to bring that conversation to light. Well, I had 5 million other questions for you, but before we wrap up, because we're going to hit our hour mark here, sorry

Mickela: I don't talk a

Christine: Lot. No, it's perfect. Like I said, that's exactly why we're here. I wanted to give you the opportunity to share about the tours that you're bringing back with bare feet tours and that you're going to Ireland. I believe. So I want to let you share that.

Mickela: Yeah, so Ireland is one of my favorite countries in the world, and it's because the people are so nice. They're just so gosh darn welcoming and kind and dance and music is such an integral part of the culture. So I just got back for St. Patrick's Day and we're heading back to Ireland end of August and early September. It's about an eight day tour where you travel with me. It's a small group tour of 15 passengers Max, and I take you around Dublin County, Claire and through the Wild Atlantic way in county care in one of my favorite places called the Dingle Peninsula. And we have all of these amazing dance and music experiences along with food and nature. And you're with me and you get to meet all of the friends that I've made along the way. The reaction I get from past travelers, they're like, are really your friends?

I was like, of course. They're really my friends. I'm bringing you in on my world. This is real. And so I think for them, that was the most beautiful part was they actually felt connected to the police because I brought them in as Here are my friends, and this is my new friend who's part of my tour, and this is my friend is the person who lives here and we're making this beautiful connection. And so yeah, if you go to bare feet tours.com, all the information is there. Again, it's limited spots. So we have a few spots left, but it is over Labor Day weekend, so we're to, we pushed a little earlier this year so we could fit it in and travel overall costs have gone up. So if you saw the price of the trip from last time, it's a little bit more just because prices have gone up in travel in general, but it's a really, really beautiful tour against small group tour.

I've curated it totally myself, and again, they're all people that I love and adore on the island of Ireland, and it's just this beautiful immersive experience of Ireland. It's not Get Ireland all in one week. That's not what it is at all. It is. I've had so many troubles that come on this trip and they're like, oh my gosh, this was amazing. Now I want to keep coming back and doing these more concentrated trips in parts of Ireland because Ireland's not a big country, but it's so dense in culture and food and dance and the people. It's just the people that make it amazing. Join me. It's really fun.

Christine: And I love how you were talking about the group travel experiences I have that sometimes too. People have the 12 countries in eight days version of group travel, and there's something different that I feel like people like you and I that just one deeply love travel and two deeply love connection. It is friends. I'm just looking and planning some of my next few trips, and we're literally going to go stay with my friend Molly, north of the Arctic Circle at her property. We're going to go stay with my friend Punam in India, literally is my friends. And then the people that come with me, I spend time getting to know them before we travel. And then when you leave, you are, they're family. You're family. And think people are maybe just learning about how to be able to travel like that because it's a in groups with people that they don't know. I think group travel is shifting and people really want that deep personal connection, and maybe they don't really, they think it's marketing gimmick that you're like, we're going to meet all my friends. And then it happens. They're like, oh my gosh, that is absolutely what happened. And then you will then really crave those kinds of experiences. So again,

Mickela: I think I also too, we've been conditioned to, it's like the wedding industry, right? Bigger the better. I think we've been conditioned for so long that if you travel, it's like the bucket list, ticking off the boxes, get in as much as you can in one trip because you never know when you're going to get back out traveling again, especially for first timers, if this is their first international trip or maybe people that don't travel, not nearly as much as we do. It's what you think you're supposed to do. We've been conditioned to think this. But then when you have, I'm sure for you, and especially for me, it was by accident where I had these experiences or it was just innate in the way I was traveling where it's like, this is the way I travel. And if I had to do just sitting on a coach bus and just being shuffled around to me, that's not fun.

Even if I'm back home, I'm not going to want to sit on a bus in New York and going to DC and Boston and Philly with it in five days. That sounds like a nightmare to me. So it's just putting that into perspective of you don't have to do what everyone is always telling you, right? It's doing what actually feels good and what slow down stay in a place longer. It's better for the environment. It's more sustainable. It's more culturally sustainable for the destinations are going to, you're going to be putting more money into the local economy, and then the people that live in that place can live there and stay there and keep their businesses running like dingle. I do a whole talk about sustainability, cultural sustainability through travel, and it's not about the not one-time use plastics and getting your sheets cleaned. Of course we know not to do those things, but it's the other idea of is my travel to this place detrimental to the people that are living here?

Or is it a benefit or is it neutral? You have to think about these things. Dingle for example, 90% of the businesses in Dingle Town are family owned. I don't know anywhere else in the world where it's 90% of the businesses of this little town are family owned. So you're meeting the owners, their families, their money's, going back and putting food on their table and keeping a roof over their head right in the same town. It's very empowering as a traveler and we're travelers. Don't say, I'm a local, we're tourists. I'm a tourist. When I go to Ireland, no matter how many times I go and how many people I know there, I'm going and I need to be respectful to that culture and to that place, and that's what we need to remember as well, especially as Americans. Just because we're spending money there doesn't mean we can do whatever we want. If you have to treat it as if your friend's home, you're going to someone's home and yeah, that's my soapbox moment. Right. Perfect. I know we're running out of time, but

Christine: No, it's so perfect. It really

Mickela: Is important. Yeah,

Christine: It is really important and that was one of the things I wanted to ask you was about slow travel and being more mindful and impactful, so I'm so glad we got it in there. Anyway, the last thing I have, if you still have time, is a few rapid fire questions that we're going to wrap up, so we'll jump into those. The first one is, what are you reading right now?

Mickela: What am I reading right now? I am teaching a course at NYU based on my show. It's been one of my goals since I started Bare Feet, and I'm rereading this book called Your Brain on Art, which is an incredible book and I really love that book, and so that's what I'm reading. You should read it. It's about how art, consuming art and making art, whatever form of art that is, is necessary for our mental health, physical health and just being human. It's amazing. Your brain on art.

Christine: Thank you. We'll make sure we have it in the show notes. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?

Mickela: A scarf.

Christine: Yep. That s comes up

Mickela: A lot. S connect as a shawl, it connect as a pillow. If I go into a church or a mosque, I can cover my head. It can act as a blanket when I'm on a flight. Yeah, a scarf.

Christine: Oh my gosh. I have to, if I can manage, because I never create this kind of content, but do a reel from the episode that came out this four before yours, but I almost said the exact same thing that you just said about a scarf. I need to just put it side by side would be hilarious. Okay. To sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while, so I know that's something that you love about travel. Where is someplace you would still long to sojourn

Mickela: That I haven't been to yet?

Christine: Yeah.

Mickela: Oh man. Is there anywhere

Christine: Left?

Mickela: So many. I haven't been to a lot of places. We are going to New Zealand for season seven, and I've always wanted to dance with the Maori people and now I'm going to be able to do that. That's going to be in July, so that's something I've wanted to do for so long.

Christine: Oh my gosh. I cannot wait to see that. That's going to be incredible. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?

Mickela: Oh man, everything. Does that make sense? Chai, chai, tea, Indian chai brings me back to Mumbai, like a really good chai. Oh, that's the best. That's the best.

Christine: Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and explore the world?

Mickela: I would say my mom. My mom, she wanted to be a flight attendant and she wanted to be a travel agent and due to circumstances, she just couldn't do it, and so I'm kind of living out her life's dream, which is amazing.

Christine: If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional, real, alive or past, who would it be?

Mickela: Michelle Obama. I've wanted a dance with her. I can't even tell you for how long I love her and I love that she dances and I love that she jumps right in. I feel like we would have so much fun. I would love to dance with her and travel with her.

Christine: Oh my gosh. Yeah. That would also be an incredible episode and I feel like that is not without, that's within reach.

Mickela: I've been trying. It's going to happen. It's like I see it, so it is going to happen at some point. I

Christine: Also can very clearly see it in my mind's eye, so I think it's true. It's already done. The last question, who is one woman in the travel industry that you admire and would love to recognize in this space?

Mickela: Samantha Brown. Always, always, always, always. She has been a champion, like I said before, a champion for all women, but she really, and her husband too. Kevin, who's her producer. The two of them are a powerhouse couple and she really, she's a workhorse. She works her butt off and she's brilliant. She's hysterical. I don't think people understand how funny she is. She's just a brilliant, brilliant woman and I love her and she really travels like a normal person. All of her travel tips are from just the 20 plus years of her actually traveling with and without her family, and she's just wonderful. I love her so much. She's amazing.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for mentioning her again, all the love. For sure. I know from so many of us to her, I really appreciate this conversation. It was so fun. I wish we had more time, but I really appreciate this time together and can't wait to see all of your vision continue to come to life in the future and especially New Zealand. I just can already see how big this smile is on your face, so it's going to be such a good episode.

Mickela: Thank you, Christine. Thanks for having me and great seeing you again.

Christine: Yep. Good to see you too. Thank you.

Christine: Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she Sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Conte. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.