Leading Authentically to Change the Landscape of Travel for Women with Beth Santos

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Beth Santos. 

Beth is an award-winning changemaker out to change the landscape of travel for women worldwide. She founded Wanderful as a travel blog aimed to explore the diverse and shared experiences of women traveling the world. Today, Wanderful has exploded into an international community and social network with the active membership of over 40,000 women and gender-diverse people of all ages and backgrounds who participate in chapter and community events and trips.

Beth's new book, Wander Woman: How to Reclaim Your Space, Find Your Voice, and Travel the World, Solo, helps women uncover the confidence they need to see the world for themselves, by themselves. 

Christine and Beth discuss:

· Beth’s new book, Wander Woman, which arrives nearly the same as her third child, what that timing has meant in her life
· Authenticity in parenthood and being a community builder and creator
· Creating your own version of work-life balance
· The 85 Percent Podcast, where Beth interviews accomplished women in travel and tourism and tells their stories of success — and their advice for a more inclusive travel industry
· World Herstory, Beth’s travel docuseries highlighting food, culture, and history through the eyes of women around the world

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

Make a difference by making a donation to Lotus Sojourns on PayPal. Are you a Soul of Travel subscriber? Click here to subscribe to Apple Podcasts, so you don’t miss the latest episodes!

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Get your copy of Wander Woman, now available! 
Learn more about Wanderful and WITS at https://sheswanderful.com/.
Get to know Beth and each of her projects at https://bethsantos.com/.
Listen to 85 Percent: The Podcast.

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Looking for ways to be a part of the Lotus Sojourns community? Learn more here!

Find Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community for like-hearted women. Find solo travel trips for women over 50 on JourneyWoman. IG: @journeywoman_original, @lotussojourns, @souloftravelpodcast.

Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Beth Santos (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Winebrenner Irick, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel.

Christine: Beth Santos is on a mission to change travel for women worldwide. As founder and CEO of leading women's travel community, wonderful. Beth connects thousands of inspired women together to create the ultimate travel support network while helping creators build and grow their voices. With the Wits Travel Creator Summit and the Bessie Awards in 2022, she launched the 85% podcast, which interviews accomplished women in travel and tourism and tells their stories of success and their advice for a more inclusive travel industry. Beth is in the process of filming episodes for World Her Story, a travel docuseries highlighting food, culture and history through the eyes of women around the world. She's an accomplished storyteller, a passionate speaker, and a creative entrepreneur dedicated to lifting women's voices and stories worldwide. She believes passionately about amplifying the stories and voices of diverse women in travel. She is also the author of Wander Woman, how to Reclaim Your Space, find Your Voice, and Travel the World Solo.

Beth is a return guest. We had so much fun catching up. I love the ease of conversation and Beth and I chatted about her new book, which arrived nearly the same time as her third child, what that timing has meant in her life and the way she shared what she was processing. We talk about our authenticity in navigating parenthood and being a creator and community builder and how this might help other women see that they can break down preconceived notions of what work life balance looks like and encourage them to realize they don't have to choose between a career and motherhood if they don't wish to. We also chat a little bit about her new book, wander Woman, her 85% podcast and her latest project still in its infancy world herstory. I often find myself thinking Beth isn't just a wander woman, but a wonder woman. And this conversation is one I think is so important, allowing us to see the authenticity and realness that invites us to both believe that any one of us can be a Wonder Woman on our own terms and that we also don't have to be. And that's okay too. This one was so much fun and I hope you enjoy it as much as we did in the moment. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Beth Santos.

Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm your host, Christine, and I'm excited today because we have a returning guest. She was here back in September of 2021, which I had to look up and see because I'm wondering how long it's been, which was episode 43 for anyone that wants we get into this, wants to go back and listen. And now we'll be at about 170 for this episode, which is crazy, but before, I'm already off and running, but I want to welcome Beth Santos, who is the recent author of Wonder Woman and also the founder of Wonderful. And we're here to talk about all of these things, so I can't wait to catch up with you. Welcome to the podcast.

Beth: Thank you for having me back. I feel so honored that I made it into the first third now of, or the first quarter I guess, of podcast guests and gosh, that was so long ago. We have so much to catch up on.

Christine: Yeah, it doesn't even seem like, I don't even feel like the same people are sitting here, so it'll be like a whole new episode. I know we were just talking before we jumped on. You've had so many changes in your life that you're literally not the same person as then, but Right. I have

Beth: Split into even more people since then. Yes.

Christine: Which such a perfect segue. That is something that we're going to talk about. But yeah, so we also, I just wanted to set the stage. We are having this interview here on March 7th, and your book was just released on the fifth. This will air a little further into the future, but I want people to know we're in big celebration mode here, so I'm really excited to be here for that with you.

Beth: Thanks. No, it's funny because it's a really busy week in some ways, and then it's also the calm before the storm in other ways because I start traveling next week, so it's really funny on launch day, people are like, oh, what did you do? And I was like, well, I went to some bookstores and then I went home. All the big stuff happens later, so it's a really fun time to be just checking in from home and talking to you.

Christine: Yeah, and it's also, I don't know if you already just mentioned, but Women's History Month and International Women's Day is tomorrow, so this is definitely a time, and I have this slated to talk about where we can find ourselves really busy when this is the space that we're holding. So again, I'm just really happy to have you here. And also I just wanted to kind of start our conversation by recognizing what a joy it's been to kind of witness this season of life that it seems like you've been in for the last couple of years. And to see just this beautiful wave of recognition that has seemed to just be flowing over, at least from the side that I'm sitting on. And I think it's just been so great. I just feel so excited to see it because in a way, it feels like a nod to the work that so many of us are doing. When I see the recognition towards you, I realize that that's beginning to happen and that this thing that we have really been, when I say we all the women who've been working to champion and support other women in the tourism industry, this is the moment I think so many of us have been waiting for. And when I see the light on you, I just know that that light's spreading out towards everyone.

Beth: Oh my gosh. That's one of the nicest things that anyone's ever said to me. That's really sweet. No, and I really very deeply appreciate that, and I think in some ways it's something that I think about a lot being running a women's travel community, but also running this community of content creators is, and we talk about this a lot and I am sure we'll get into many more things on this call, but I talk about it with my sales team a lot because when we have an event, for example, we run this conference for travel content creators, and I think every sponsor we get for this event, we are opening the door for that to then work with the 500 people that are coming to the event. And I take that very seriously of not to be like, oh, I am the key to everyone's success. That's not true at all. But I do recognize that when I bring a brand to our event, that creates an opportunity for exposure for all these other women. And in some ways it's really, really stressful thinking about that because you're like, we have to get everybody and we have to make this case for why this is so important. But in other ways, it feels really nice to be able to do this work and to just spend so much time elevating other people who are doing amazing work too. So thank you. Sweet.

Christine: Yeah, you're welcome. And it is, it's like this, I can't think of the right word, but this web weaving that I feel like we get to do with some level of intentionality, and it's not, again, not self-serving, right? It's like, man, if I could tie this knot over here, I can see how that's going to connect all these things. And I just get to witness what becomes after that. And not because I'm some magic maker, but because that's just the space that I am in and that I'd love to be in. Yeah, totally. I feel like we have the same heart for that space. And the other thing I wanted to do is not only mention that you have birthed this new book into the world, but you also just birth the new human, which is also incredible. And we're going to talk about that too, but it's such a great, I just feel like so much is coming to life literally in your space. And again, just I'm really excited to get to share some of that with our listeners today.

Beth: It is a year of creation that is for sure.

Christine: Yeah, true. No,

Beth: Underestimating that.

Christine: Yeah. I'm sure you had no idea when you were mapping out the five-year plan what was coming, but

Beth: No, not at all. Not even close, but that's one of the tenets of travel that I feel like I'm always preaching, which is just you just got to roll with it. You just have to enjoy the ride and not expect your travels to take you any one way. They take you. You don't take them, you don't take a trip, a trip takes you. I don't know. That's kind of like, I feel more and more like that. And I feel like my journey as a human has been more and more like that of just embrace whatever's being thrown at you and just keep moving.

Christine: Yeah. That's so good. Well, the first thing that I wanted to talk about, which maybe falls under the category of showing up as you are who you are without trying to manipulate yourself to match the energy or status of a room or a zoom or whatever, and not always having to be a hundred percent on, which is a space that I know probably right now you're feeling that a hundred percent on call, but you and I hopped on a Zoom a few years ago and we both kind of landed in the zoom. Our hair was wet, we just showered. We probably just somehow managed to get our kids out of the space so that we could have the conversation. And I remember in my mind before that conversation, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm getting on this zoom with Beth. She's always on the top of her game, so I want to make sure I'm matching that. And then we landed there in this real space and I was like, oh, thank goodness there was such a pressure let off of that Steve, like me

Beth: Totally unkempt women.

Christine: We're both people, but I just think it's so interesting how we can do that. And I think when we are leading, especially leading women, what does it mean to show up as we are sometimes in those spaces personally and professionally to just set the pace for others to be able to be really true about what it's like to be where they are and who they are in that moment?

Beth: You asked me this question as I am fully makeup with jewelry on, I just did this video thing, and so like it feels so funny. I know everyone can't see, but it's talking about this while I'm in my best element. But no, it's funny. I think as an entrepreneur, I don't want to say every entrepreneur feels comfortable doing that, but I think in some ways becoming an entrepreneur and running my own business has given me more freedom to take the lead and be that way. I think especially becoming a parent the first time around, I kind of realized trying to keep up appearances is going to hold me back. I just don't have the time for it. I don't have the time to be perfectly makeup all the time. I am literally raising another human right now and trying to keep this business afloat and priorities.

But I think along the way, I also learned that especially as women, I don't think we do ourselves a good service if we're always fully put together. And I know that comes out a little bit weird, but it's like there's so much imposter syndrome in our space, and I feel it too. And there's so much, this person is inherently just more put together and better than me. I think we need to talk a lot more about the human side of it all and the fact that we are all just working through it and nobody's perfect. I think once you start doing that, I think it gives people a lot more agency to actually show up and produce and succeed in their careers because they're not worried about all of these other little details. So I like that and I try to cultivate that in my team and just with people I interact with.

And I still feel that pressure all the time of like, oh, this person's wearing a really beautiful dress. I only buy my stuff at TJ Maxx. I'm never going to get a custom gorgeously tailored dress that I can take flowy Instagram photos with. But at the same time, that's power in itself to be able to say, Hey, I'm still doing my thing and I'm doing it in a dress that costs 1699 on the clearance rack, and that's okay, and that's who I am. Yeah, no, I think that that's super important and then I'll stop talking. But also as a parent of girls, I feel that that's very important and I see my girls watching me and the decisions that I make, even we have the makeup conversation a lot. My daughter, Nora will be like, mommy, why are you putting makeup on? I'm like, why am I putting makeup on?

It becomes this very, I'm like, I'm putting it on because I think it's fun and not because I feel like I need it and not because I feel like it's making me into a better person, and I still am beautiful, but sometimes mommy just likes to put on makeup. I literally just go through all these things in my head because I realize how implicitly we're sending these signals to other women that you have to look or act or be a certain way or hide some part of yourself in order to fit this small definition of who is successful. And that's not true. Okay, I'm done.

Christine: Yeah, no, you don't even have to say, don't apologize, but as you were saying that, I was thinking how curious it would be to ask your daughters why they would love to put on makeup because they would probably be like, because it makes me so feel beautiful, or I love the bright colors, or I want to be like my mom. You're

Beth: Not even thinking about it.

Christine: And I know because I have three daughters that I definitely am thinking about that. What's the feminist stance I should be taking on everything, which is a lot of pressure, but I also really, I do want to be thinking about that. And then also just trying to even think about their perspective of how they're absorbing something maybe isn't at the level that I think that they are at this point. My oldest is probably starting to get there, but when they were littler, I wanted to be that role model for them in thinking about it that way. But sometimes my middle daughter will be like, mom, I just asked the question. I didn't need the history of whatever it was. I was like, I'm sorry,

Beth: History of feminism

Christine: Of anything. Yeah, the feminist history of drive-throughs or whatever. I don't know. They're always just like, oh my gosh, mom, that's too much.

Beth: Oh, I overanalyze it all the time. But no, I mean, to your point, I should be, I don't mean to say that we should be psychoanalyzing everything we do so that it's not misinterpreted incorrectly for somebody else, but I think it's also like, yeah, there are times when you just want to look nice and that's okay. It can be simple like that, but also I think there is this other level of power, I think, and not that power is the most important thing, but power in a good way, which is if I show up to a meeting, I'm on a sales call and I have a baby on that call, in a good way, just changes so much. It says so many unsaid things. Number one, I believe babies should exist in an adult world. Number two, I am okay with you having your baby on this call if you need that.

And now maybe your life is a little bit easier because you're not having to pretend that there's not a baby just off screen that you're constantly trying to shush while you're trying to get your work done. Number three, it makes us all rethink the reality that all of us might have other things going on besides just work right now, whether we're parents, whether we're other caregivers. And so I don't necessarily feel like we should all just be blissfully ourselves and running rampant through the streets, being like, I am not going to subscribe to whatever rules, blah, blah. I do it my own way. But I think that there is some magic to kind of being like, I am putting myself in a position of vulnerability because I want you to feel safe putting yourself in a position of vulnerability because we don't need to have these appearances in order to do great work. We can just do great work.

Christine: Oh my goodness, that's so good. And I, I mean, I have so many friends that recently had children, so it's been interesting watching

That evolution for them, some of them first children. And then also because we're in this space where we do so much work online, it is very easy for that parenthood role to seep into our professional role, right? Because as I told you, I have a daughter who's home sick, so she could walk through the door at any moment, and if I were in my office, it's much easier to just keep those roles separated, but then you're not recognizing that those roles are also simultaneously happening because they're not happening in the same space. And so I do think this is an important transition in our work, our experience, our existence as employees because whereas leaders, because these things, the lines are blurring

Beth: And it's a lie to suggest they're not. Yeah, it's a lie to suggest they're not. And I think even the number of times, my husband and I are both working from home quite a bit, especially because the baby is so little. And my husband, I mean, he has a wonderful job and his team is great, but there are some times that he is on a call and he has to put on a professional, I mean, me too, but I think less so than him, he'll have to put on a professional appearance and we're tiptoeing around him and the baby makes a noise and we're like, quiet. He's on this important call. And it's like you think about that video that went viral a few years ago of the guy doing the CNN interview and the kids come into the background and I mean, it's not real.

You can't actually separate these things. You try so much, but sometimes a child just barges in and that's what it is. And so I see my husband on these calls kind of trying to keep up the appearances. I'm like, God, that's a lot of work. It's just really, that's a lot of stress and planning and organizing and making it all. And sometimes we have to do it. It's true. Sometimes we just have to be professional. But other times, if you don't have to be, it's so freeing just to be like, well, I'm going to be nursing on this call, so just letting you know you're going to hear some weird noises and people

Christine: Love it. I

Beth: Don't know. And it's not just a parenting conversation. I think it's everything. I think a lot about the messages that we send to each other in whatever we do, and especially when it's about and elevating women who are historically underrepresented in business leadership. Well, a lot of that representation happens because of these barriers that we've created as a society that are keeping women down that like, oh, it's not socially accepted to be breastfeeding in a meeting, so therefore that's keeping a lot of women from being able to get to that table in the first place. And so it's a little revolt in our own way of being like, no, you know what? I can actually actively do this and also run a business at the same time, and you can too. And we don't have to submit to these rules that have been set for us from decades ago c centuries ago.

Christine: Yeah, thank you. Well, one of the other things that following you on LinkedIn, which is one of my very favorite places to follow you, I love how you show up in that space all the time. I'm just like, yes, I wish there was that icon on celebrate or whatever, the yes icon. Yeah, that's mic drop or whatever. I don't know. This is so important. Love it. But one of the things I was really inspired by was when you did find out that you were pregnant and this at this moment, you were about ready to wrap up writing your book and this huge shift happened and you were so honest about grappling with what does this look like? What does this feel like? And I just was, again, I was so proud of you for bringing some of that emotional dissonance to the stage and being like, holy cow, I am on this wave that we were talking about earlier. All of these beautiful things were happening. All of these seeds that you had planted were like blooming. And there was that moment where you were like, what does this do to this garden? And you were sharing that, and I just wondered if you could talk to why you felt that was important to share.

Beth: Yeah. I have to say I love LinkedIn. I really do. I think it's such a great platform. I think of all social platforms, LinkedIn is the one that feels the least algorithm to me. It feels like it allows you to tell stories more than I think other platforms do. This is my opinion. And the other thing I love about it is I feel like the impact is bigger because I'm talking to an industry, not that every starfish in the sea is very important, but also in the industry of travel in which I work, LinkedIn allows me to talk directly to the people in my professional network. And I feel like that's just super impactful. So I love that. I think one thing that LinkedIn struggles with sometimes is what a lot of social media platforms struggle with, which is the pressure to make everything look really polished and perfect.

And I think other platforms struggle with it a lot more than LinkedIn does. I think you look at Instagram, it tends to still be perfectly curated photos, and that's what it is. But one thing that I think, and so I think on LinkedIn it tends to sometimes be, congratulations to me. I just got this award or I got this promotion and that's good. But I do think that there is a level of conversation that happens on that platform more than other places where people can really tell their story. They have the time and the space to write a longer story, to tell how they're feeling about something and have personal support from a professional network, I think. And for me, where my life is my job, and I don't mean that in an obsessive way, I just mean that in I love my job, I created my job, I feel like my job is my calling.

I feel like it's the thing I'm supposed to do. It's not just a job for me. Yes, do I practice work-life balance? Absolutely. I do my best to do that. But at the same time, this isn't something that I just turn off in my head. I'm always thinking about my job. And so for me, the personal and the professional intermingle a lot. Yeah, so I think I to, I don't want to say I like to be vulnerable on LinkedIn. That sounds a little bit weird, but I recognize that to of what we were talking about before, everybody is a human even if they're in a professional setting. And so sometimes I like to talk about the human side of things as they relate to the professional side of things. And that was one of those things I just felt like telling a story about that day was, yeah, we were not planning on having three kids.

We were very happy with our two daughters. I was super duper busy in my career. It was like the feeling everybody had at the beginning of 2020 when Covid happened. I feel like everybody was like, oh, I was planning this really big trip, or I had these big career moves. And then all of a sudden, and that's how I felt about finding out I was pregnant. I was like, I have this book coming out 2024, it's going to be like this amazing year. I'm going to do all this stuff. And then I was like, crap, I'm going to have a baby in 2024. And I am experienced enough of as a parent to know that you can't just have a baby and then move on and do other stuff. This is going to interrupt your life. There is no doubt about it for the rest of your life.

And I was really upset, and ultimately my husband and I decided that we were going to roll with it and go with the flow. But it was really challenging for me, and I had a lot of questions about where was this going to take my career because I do feel like our careers, well, and that's science, that's not feeling data has shown that our careers as women are held back when we have children because of the society that we are in and the barriers that are set up here. And I was just like, this was the time that I was supposed to be focusing on my career. And I finally was like, I'm ready and I can start traveling more and I can start doing this stuff more. And oh, now we're going to have a newborn. And I don't really know if I can answer the question of why I decided to share that story.

I just felt like sharing that story was a great, I knew that other people have gone through this, I guess, and I love to tell stories, and I think through my experience, if I can help somebody to think differently about something, maybe an employer to think differently about something or I can help somebody who's going through this experience to know that they're not alone and that other people are thinking through it. I guess it was really just that desire to share that message with the world and to help other future parents, but also to call out society in some ways of what we've set each other up for and how that's not fair in a lot of ways that we're not all thinking about that or addressing that.

Christine: Yeah, I think that's what really resonated with me too, is just that one. I don't think I'd seen someone just address that moment, which is both joyous and then just, it's so life altering and you have to examine all the things, and I just really appreciated that. And to let that be a moment that we actually can acknowledge happens was really important to me. And seeing that, and also even today, I think you were posting about this book tour and just questioning leaving your little guy home and what is this moment? Is my presence and this moment worth the exchange of leaving him home? And not to even necessarily consider that judgment, but to share that you had this process that you were going through. Because again, I think it's something that so many women relate to. And again, like you were saying, even people that maybe care for a parent or care for anybody else. When your roles collide, how do you know which role has the most heft in that moment, I guess?

Beth: Yeah, no, you're right. And yeah, I think even right, today's post I just posted today for everyone listening, and as you very eloquently explained, I'm about to go on a book tour, and again, I was planning this book tour before I found out I was pregnant. This was going to, and so then it came to this sort of realization of, okay, I can push forward with my career and be like, yeah, push forward. It's okay, you can do it. But then there is this level of guilt of just like, oh, so you're prioritizing your career over your son, and that's kind of messed up. I don't know. And he's so young, and I think whenever I feel strongly about something like that, my thinking is to write, and I have started to think more and more. I think also honestly, becoming an author has done this for me too.

It's like writing a book has taught me to see the way I process things outside of myself a little bit, and I'm like, wow, if I'm feeling this way, how many other people are feeling this way? Sorry, I just hit my microphone. How many other people are feeling this way and how can I help them? Not being a guru, not knowing the answer, but just kind of sharing that. I'm also going through it and illustrating it, and I think naming it gives it a little bit less power to kind of be like, wow, I'm really feeling really crappy about this and nobody really talks about it. But saying that and knowing that other people have gone through it and hopefully giving somebody else the tools to recognize it and address it when they approach it, that's my way of almost fighting back on these feelings.

And it is, it's really hard and I don't have a lot of the answers. And actually somebody said that to me about my book. They're like, you don't really have a lot of answers in the book, but you do ask a lot of good questions. And I was like, well, there you go. I don't have the keys to the universe. I don't know everything, but I'm going to tell you the nuances of what to think about and what's important to me and what I've noticed and who I've talked to. And I think that's what I do on LinkedIn too, is it's kind of like, do I have the answer? Is one actually better than the other? Should I still go on this book tour? I don't know. And you know what? It's possible I'm going to go on the book tour and I'm going to be like, that was a waste of my time.

I cannot believe I did it. And I think we also have to remember the psychology of that in this moment before I've left on my tour, I don't know, nobody can know. No one knows what's going to happen. And oftentimes we judge ourselves based on the outcome. And this is a scientific thing that people actually, if something ends well, they'll kind of be like, oh, that was a good choice, but if it doesn't end well, they're like, oh, that was a crappy choice. Even though the choice is the same and the outcome might not have anything to do with what you've done. And I talk about that in the context of solo travel. People will say like, oh, if I go on this trip and I have this amazing time, it was a good decision. If I go on this trip and something happens to me, maybe I get hurt. It was a bad decision, but it's like, but the decision, that's not necessarily true.

You don't have control necessarily over if somebody passes you on the street or if they attack you, whatever. So judging your decision based on what happens after, in some ways, yes, you're right. Sometimes you discover if you are right or not about something, but other times it's like you can't judge yourself though. You can't be like, oh, that was stupid. How could you have known in that moment? So I think about that too, of I'm going on this book tour. I don't know what it's going to be like, and I have to remember that I can't be mad at myself if it doesn't go the way I expected. I can't try to justify like, oh, I'm doing this, so this has to work out. That also puts so much pressure on you to like, oh my gosh, what details am I working on? Who am I talking to?

How much am I speaking about that? There's so many different things that can change and some in your control and not in your control that we really don't have control after we've made the decision so much, as much as we think we do anyway. And so, yeah, so that's kind of the space I'm in right now of just like this has been decided. Hopefully it will go well, but if it doesn't go well, and not that I hope that it doesn't go badly, but in the way that I'm expecting it to be whatever worth the time. But also, can we as a society, and we, especially as women, not beat ourselves up about this stuff. And maybe that's the message that I'm really trying to share, is that these things are hard, and talking about them builds awareness for other people to realize what's going on in our lives.

Christine: As you were talking about some of that and especially answering or asking questions and not having the answers, I feel like that's some of our role. Right. Hey, it's Christine interrupting this episode for just a minute to invite you to join me for my women's Wilderness and Yoga retreat in Alaska in March of 2025. I'm putting on my Lotus Sojourns hat for just a minute to tell you about this incredible experience that will have you traveling 63 miles north of the Arctic Circle to stay at Arctic Hive, which is owned by my friend Molly Busby and her husband Sean. This boutique property is nestled in the Brooks Range and it's way off the beaten path and also off grid. We'll stay in beautiful cabins built by hand by our hosts, practice yoga in their yoga dome, lovingly referred to as the hive with gorgeous views of surrounding nature.

We'll explore the wilderness by Snowshoe and dog sled, connect with members of the local community to learn about living in this remote environment, enjoy daily yoga practice, nourishing meals, all while keeping our eye out for the beautiful Northern Lights that like to show off their magic at this time of year. And scientists are saying that 2025 is expected to be one of the most magnificent displays in recent history. I guided this journey in 2023, and it's one of the most requested trips to offer. Again, I only have six spaces for this unique adventure, and a few are already taken. I'd suggest pausing this episode and hopping over to the Lotus Soren's website to book yours today. Please share this experience with anyone who would love this restorative adventure. If you want to learn more, you can listen to my Soul of Travel conversation episode 67 with Molly Busby to hear about the Arctic Archive and her yoga journey. You can also get on my Soul of Travel and Lotus Sojourns mailing list to join upcoming information sessions to hear about this and other departures that are happening in 2025. Now, let's hop back to our soulful conversation and on your back to LinkedIn. This conversation is now sponsored by LinkedIn.

Beth: I know, right? Yeah. Call LinkedIn

Christine: After this, but on your profile because it says that you're disrupting travel for women. And so when I think of the idea of disruption, it is often throwing those questions out there. Just asking the question sometimes is the force of disruption that allows other people to come in and start to examine it, and then the solutions come. But you do have to ask the questions first. And I think some of us are really good at just seeing the spaces where we need to be questioning what structures exist, and that's what we can do all day long. And then we do have to stand there without the answers, which is sometimes a little bit more vulnerable than we want it to be. But I think it's really important to just own that space of that being the thing that we are good at. And I think it's a really important thing to have people doing in the world today.

Beth: I think that's really great insight. I'm going to hold that close to me of That's right. I don't need to have the answers. My job is raising the question, but No, but you're right. And I think there is a lot of pressure to know the answer. I think we live in a society that really, you are supposed to have an opinion about everything. And I remember years ago I was sitting with a content creator whose name escapes me, but he is a very talented person, and he had said he was not American. And he said to me, he was like, there's so, there is so much power in the phrase, I don't know. And he was like, I think about that a lot. This phrase, I don't know. And how important it's, and I think we are so pressured to have an opinion about everything, and a lot of times the best thing that you can do is actually not have an opinion because that means that it could mean that you haven't thought about it at all, but it could also mean that you've thought about it a lot and you have evaluated all of the sides and you have still come to no conclusion.

And that means that you're thoughtful. It means that you're considerate. It means that you're empathetic even. And I think that that's really important because especially on social media, even nowadays, it's like you're supposed to stand up for something, you're supposed to say something, and standing up for something is really important, but also you shouldn't stand up for something really fast because everyone's telling you to do it, even if you don't know anything about it. So I think it's okay to be in a space where you're saying, I am still collecting data, or I'm considering all sides, or I understand all sides, or I don't understand all sides, and that's why I want to learn more. And I don't know. And so I think that's what I spend a lot of time doing is saying, I'm not going to tell you what the answer is. I don't know what the answer is. The answer is very complicated, but let me explain to you what is happening and why this answer is actually not as easy as you think and as straightforward as you think because maybe we haven't thought through that part yet. And yeah, I do think that that's really important.

Christine: Yeah. Well, I have one more non-book related question, and then I do want to make sure we actually talk about the book, which is why we're here today, or at least it's an excuse for us to be here today. Sure. And I mentioned that we're recording this episode a day before International Women's Day, so this is a great timing for us. But also this is a moment when we kind of feel the weight of this week and this month. And as I mentioned, being women that are really focusing on creating spaces for women and gender equity, we can feel a huge struggle with how to show up right now. And again, I feel like I've read posts that you have wrestled with this as well. And for me right now, I'm coming off of a year of having some kind of weird health issues. And then last month I had everything that my kids decided to bring home from the Petri dish of school, and all of a sudden it's February or it's March and it's time to be doing all these things that we need to do to get the word out for International Women's Day for Women's History Month.

And I just was thinking, how much does it honor what I'm trying to say to be giving 110% right now and speaking as loud as possible because this is when people are primed to listen, and how much does that kind of support the actual need to have a month where we're focusing on the fact that women's voices need to be heard? And I wrestle with this for Black History Month, I wrestle with this for every space. I feel like if we are who we say we are, we're actually doing this all of the time. And again, back to LinkedIn, you just made a great post about this, about what we can be doing 12 months of the year, but I wanted to talk to you, how do you wrap yourself around this struggle? Sure. You feel it too. There's such, again, an emotional dissonance here of what's the right thing to do in this space?

Beth: It's such an interesting paradox. I think that women's history month is the time when we are putting the most strain on the shoulders of women. Same with Black History Month, as you were saying, that is the time when we're expecting the most mental and emotional labor from black people. I think that is a challenge. And on the one hand, you're trying to speak out at a time when people are listening, and I think that's at the end of the day, my primary thought, actually, to be totally honest with you, we rescheduled, and I put this in my post, we rescheduled the book launch to March because of Women's History Month. It was originally January. The publisher moved it to April when she found out I was pregnant. And they were like, we're going to view three months. And then I said, no, let's push it back to March.

Because March is Women's history month and March is when people are listening and they're looking for opportunities to talk about women, and the book will give them an opportunity to do that. So I absolutely used the system because it or not, in March, people are reaching out and they're like, oh yeah, women, we don't have an article about that crap. Where should we go? And they're looking for stuff. So I think on the one hand, it is great to take that energy. It's great that there is energy, that's lovely. But I think on the other hand, it puts so much work onto the shoulders of women who are like, okay, this is the one time of year. Everybody's listening to me, so what do I have to say? What's my big thing? What's the important thing that I need to say right now in this moment?

I'm not going to have another moment. And so the post that I had posted was, it was kind of like, I don't think, and again, this is all personal opinion, I don't think having, I know some people are like, oh, forget these women history month. That's stupid because we should be celebrating women all year. I agree. But I also think that we're just busy people that forget a lot of stuff, and we're fickle and we just forget. And I think if instead of being like, this is my month to talk about women, maybe we make it more internal. We think like, okay, this is my month to consider. What am I doing for women? This is my month to think about it. I'm going to give myself the month to reflect on it throughout the rest of the year. I'm going to implement those things.

But this is my time to measure up and to be like, how many women have I hired? What's the diversity of the women on my c-suite? How many women am I amplifying in my work? Am I going to women owned businesses, et cetera? If everyone could just take 10 minutes to think about that and then map out a plan for the rest of the year, okay, this is my hiring plan for women going forward. This is how I'm going to buy for more women. These are the articles I'm going to read, whatever. I'm going to follow a hundred women so that my feed has more women in it from now on social, whatever it is. I think that that would be great. Can we have reminder moments? But then let's make sure we're carrying it on through the year. So I do think that as advocates, we are opting in some ways and just like I am saying, Hey, I'm here to talk about women.

So I realize that during women's history month, I'm going to get a little bit busier. That's okay with me. That's part of my job, but I want to make sure that we're really thinking this through. And it's not just, I don't want to say performative, feel like that word is actually overused sometimes now, but not performative in the sense of not just being like, let's check the box of do the women's thing and move on. Let's use this as a minute to all check in and say, what are we actually doing all year long for women? So that March is our reflection time, but the whole year is the time that we're implementing and executing.

Christine: Yeah. Oh my goodness. So I'm using my mic drop icon again. Thank you. I love that mic drop icon. Okay, so now I do really want to spend some time talking about your book. And I wanted to just hear from you a little bit about why personally did you want to write it? And then who is it for and what did you want the readers to be able to take away from the book when they were reading it?

Beth: Yeah, this question is a lot harder than it should be. I don't know why I'm like, why did I want to write the book? I don't know. I just started writing it like my LinkedIn post. I just start writing it. I think the book itself has evolved. When I first started writing it, I was looking to write a solo travel guide for women. It was going to be a lot more tactical, what to pack, et cetera, et cetera. The more I started writing, the more I started seeing myself talking about issues that I thought were important.

When I first started traveling alone, I was 20 and I studied abroad in Portugal, and I found myself so hit on the side of the head with the fact that women's experiences abroad really do change based on where we go. And I was confronted with a different gender norm, for example, even in Portugal, which now is for me, it's like going to New Jersey. But then before it felt so different, really, really different. That was really my first time. And when you're alone, you feel those things even more strongly. You don't have the buffer of somebody else or you're not having the cultural comfort. You really are immersing in yourself and getting very vulnerable. And I had a lot of culture shock and nobody had prepared me for that. I think we kind of maybe talked a little bit about what to expect on your trip, but it was more like what to expect on your trip versus what to expect on this life-changing experience that was going to make you question everything about yourself and how were you going to go through that?

And those are two very different things. And so as I wrote the book, I realized more and more that I was talking a lot more to the person who was preparing for her trip about the things that she didn't know about, the unknown unknowns of what it was going to feel like. Realizing that you are being, maybe you look really different from the people who are local and how it's going to feel to get that kind of attention, for example, or to be confronted with a certain way that you're talked to or looked at or treated or even the way you feel when you come home and you realize that you feel really different, but you don't really know how to explain that. And the very complicated feelings that come from that and all of those things. And so then when I got an agent, which was amazing, and we found a publisher who was a solo traveler herself.

My editor was experienced solo traveler herself. And so she just ate up the concept. But it was interesting. She was the one who sort of said to me, she was like, I actually think this is more of a self-help book than a travel guide. And from there, that's where it evolved. And I think the book is in, I think if you go to a bookstore, it's in general travel under travel guides. It's still in the travel guide section. There's not a travel self-help section. But if there were, this would be in it because it is so much more about the internal things that we struggle with and also the external forces that make us feel those internal things. How does our media talk about women in travel? What are the messages that we're telling women right now? And how is that skewing the expectations that we have going in and how can we push back on them?

So yeah, I think it's really evolved in its own way to become this beautiful thing that I'm really honestly really, really proud of. And I hope that it helps people way more than just being like, here's the five things you can pack and here's how to create a capsule wardrobe. Those things are important, but that information is out there. You can find that information easily. That's a Google search. You don't need a book for that anymore. And so this is more how to address that feeling of realizing that everything you knew is actually very specific to where you're from, and there's infinite other ways to do and and live that you haven't even considered before. And that's this book.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, that's so good. It's like your girlfriend's guide to actually being a traveler, not it's

Beth: Like, yes, exactly. It's like the sit down conversation that everybody's parent or loved one or aunt or whatever should have with them. That's the book I wanted to write, the book that somebody buys for you when you're about to go on a trip and they say, I cannot even begin to have this conversation with you, but this book will and read it and it'll help you. That's what I wanted.

Christine: Yeah, I think it's so beautiful because I think that is something that so many of us need, and it takes a long time to be able to find the language to speak about experiences or to even ask the questions that you want to ask because it takes some time to understand what you're seeing and witnessing. And I think probably for you and for me, even those things that we were seeing and feeling early on in travel, there literally wasn't language for yet. So we actually have an opportunity to put the language and the shape of things for travelers before they start traveling because we didn't know that there was a power dynamic in travel. That's something that we probably felt, but we would've never known how to come back and say, this is what I witnessed, and I'm not sure that that's what I want to be a part of, or I want to be a part of making that not feel that way for other travelers.

But there wasn't just a way to speak about it. And I think it's really important to maybe send travelers arms with that knowledge to be able to process those experiences as you move through the world. Because we often think about travel being this superficial exchange or that Instagram version of travel is this very kind of selectively curated experiences. But when you get out there, you're like, wait a second, I don't see that perfect waterfall and this whatever beach, but I am feeling all these other things and I don't know how to be this traveler. And I think that space is important.

Beth: That was very eloquently said, and you're right, and a lot of these things were not things we even talked about. We didn't even know about them. A lot of these things didn't even exist. There's a whole chapter that talks about social media and it talks about the expectations we have because of social media and how that affects us. And social media blissfully did not exist as much as it does today when I first started traveling alone. And now thinking about how those narratives are shaping us and our expectations and what our travel industry, who our travel industry is talking to and what they look like and who's representing them. I mean, all of that gets really complicated. And I think it's just continuing to evolve. So there's things that have existed forever that we've just never had the language for, and then there's new things that didn't exist forever that we are having to reconcile. And it's only going to get even more complicated from there, I think.

Christine: Yeah, which I think is great, right? Again, for that disruptor persona, that complication is actually leading us to this thing that we look forward to experiencing at some point in our lifetimes that feels the way that we wish that we felt. I guess it starts to match up. Well, before we end our conversation, I have three more things, three more of your hats. I just really wanted to quickly tap into, and then I have our rapid fire questions, but the one is your 85% podcast, which I know you've been working on over the past few years. And then world Her Story, which is another exciting project, and then for local people in your area or people traveling the ULA Cafe, which my very favorite thing is just seeing the description, a social justice and community-minded cafe and community space. I was like, of course. That's like if Beth had a cafe, that is what it is. So I just want you to be able to talk quickly about each of those things for our listeners to know about.

Beth: Yeah. So thank you. So 85% is a podcast that I started last year. I actually just got my little notification that you started it a year ago. I apparently started a year ago on March 1st. I was like, wow, that's really exciting. I interview trailblazing women in travel, and I hear their stories, and the 85% refers to the fact that 85% of travel decisions are made by women, which is astounding when we consider that women are not represented at all in the travel industry. I think they're like 8% of senior leadership in travel. They're not in a lot of the imagery now. There's more women in travel imagery, but it's still very, very narrow type of woman. It's like a very young, skinny, straight woman usually. And so 85% is like, let's talk to women who are leading the charge and changing up travel and making it better for all of us, and let's hear their stories.

That's the podcast, 85%, the eight 5% podcast.com, and World Herstory is my favorite current project. It is the youngest of the projects. It still is in the development phase, but being a creator just by nature, that's just what I do. Not a creator in the sense of being a social content creator, which I am, but really just being creatively driven always. For some reason, I just run my own race sometimes and I'm like, here's not a TV show. I'm going to make one. Do you have TV experience? Absolutely not. But I have a clear idea of what I want to do and I'm going to do it. And that's what happened with World herstory is we were in Puerto Rico for our creator summit that we run on behalf of. Wonderful. And I was like, we've got this amazing woman video team, women run video team, and what would happen if I were to just reserve their time for two days and just record the TV show that I've always wanted to have?

And that TV show is a show that Chronicles travel through the eyes of women. So we just created the pilot episode and it's me in Puerto Rico it eating and it's like, it's fun. It's a travel show, so I'm eating and experiencing things, but I'm only going to women owned businesses and I'm telling a story and the story for Puerto Rico is all about food sovereignty and about the women who are of reclaiming power through food. And we're currently figuring out what our next step is, looking for a distributor, collecting data on if people think we should just create a YouTube channel or if we should actually go to a Netflix. There's a few different routes for this, but I'm really, really excited about it. And then ula, yeah, that's my physical manifestation of all this. I think everything else is so digital. I run everything from home or on my travels.

ULA is the local cafe that has lived existed in our neighborhood since 2007, so it's been around for a while and in 2021 it went up for sale and my husband and I who have absolutely zero experience in hospitality and didn't even know how to make a cappuccino and still arguably don't really know how to make a good cappuccino, decided to buy it. We saw a good investment opportunity. We saw a good way to be involved in our community. We saw something that looks kind of fun. It's been a ton of work, but it's also really cool. We could have a whole episode talking about that because that is one of the oldest businesses. There is just food and respite for the weary. That's what this business is and it is the physical in-person community that I think a lot of times in a digital world now we really crave and it's been so fun to just be a beacon of gathering and that's not something we created. We came into it as owners, but hopefully we're still cultivating it and and we'd love for anyone to come by. We do breakfast and lunch and pastries and coffee and all the good stuff and a little side of community. We support local artists and we try to give back as much as we can to initiatives that are important to us. And yeah, I think you see that when you walk into the cafe, for sure.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm so glad that we could speak to each of those as well. Okay, so we're going to jump into the rapid fires. You probably have done this with me once before, but it's probably been long enough that neither of us, I don't know remember answers. Oh, I'm answers. They might be different answers. The first is, what are you reading right now?

Beth: I am reading this great book. It's called The Unsettles, and it's all about people who have given up on modern society and they're just like, I want to go back to the land and be homesteaders and not use a lot of electricity and make my own food and give a big fu to industrialization. And it's fascinating. I am really, really enjoying it.

Christine: Yeah. Oh my gosh, that sounds so good and probably really dangerous for me to read. And then Yes, me too. Hearing about how Beth and Christine moved off the grid and they're creating this community for who knows

Beth: What I am five seconds away, I'm just like Marvin, my husband. I'm like, let's buy the house next door and knock it down and build a giant urban farm and have an apple orchard and he is like, you are crazy.

Christine: Oh goodness. Well, I feel like that could be a whole nother conversation about the people that stand beside us when we are the people that are doing all these things, but okay, the next question, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?

Beth: Oh, my journal. I always bring my travel journal. I always have things even if I don't write in it, which sometimes I don't, often I don't, but it's just a paper, just a good old paper journal now. It's one of those five year ones where you write one line a day and then you get to see what you wrote five years ago, which is pretty fun.

Christine: Yeah, I bought one of those for my daughter and I didn't know if she would do it, but she's about three years in and I think it'll be so interesting to see from 10 to 15 she's going to change. That's such a interesting, so cool.

Beth: That's such a good idea, base

Christine: Of life to reflect on because it's I think, not something that we usually hang on to like that. Yeah, I love that. To sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where would you still love to sojourn?

Beth: I would love to. Okay. Rapid fire. The first thing that comes into my head is Italy. I would give anything to live in Italy for a moment. My family's also part Italian. I don't talk about that a lot. I don't know a lot about my Italian side, but that would be fun. I would totally do under the Tuscan sun thing and just get an old house and make my own wine and just be living in rural Italy.

Christine: Yeah, my girls and I spent two weeks in southern Italy this last summer, last fall, and oh my gosh, just yes, I could second that as well. And just driving through and looking at these houses and these estates that are time capsules and it was just incredible. So I agree. I think that could be really a great experience. Maybe that's where you do the,

Beth: Oh my gosh. I was going to say the homesteading. Are Beth and Christine going to move to the Italian countryside and be like, whatever, wine and the olive producers and that's it. That's what it sounds like.

Christine: It's to happen. Yeah. Wait for the book about that.

Beth: Wait for the book. Yes.

Christine: Okay. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been

Beth: When I feel like really just gray, just not even down on myself, but just disconnected from my life. I make this Portuguese kale soup called Cal Ver, and it's like the most traditional Portuguese soup, and I actually learned it from my aunt who passed away a few years ago. I learned her recipe and so it's like the one thing that I can make and eat and it's not the one thing I can make, but in this context, it's one thing I can make and eat and feel like she's next to me because I'm tasting the taste that I remember when she was alive, and that really grounds me and feels really good.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and travel the world?

Beth: Oh, my grandma, my grandma Margaret, who passed away in 2019 is wonderful. Used to be called Go Girl, and I always called her the OG, the original Go Girl because that woman traveled, she met her husband in her thirties on a ship. She was a nurse and she was on a ship to Saudi Arabia, and again, this is my grandma, so in her thirties, that was 1950. She's traveling on her own to Saudi Arabia, ends up meeting her husband. They have eight kids, very late in life for somebody in the fifties and traveled her whole life and traveled up until the year she died. She's traveled. So that was such an example for me about that, and I've always kept that close to me.

Christine: I at some point need to put a collection of Soul of Travel guest grandma's stories together because they are so many of them or the women that have set us on this path, so that's so great. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real alive or past, who would it be?

Beth: I remember what I said the last time I said Maya Angelou because I like the way that she looks at the world. My second thought was Moana, but I actually feel like she would be very aggravating to travel with, so

Christine: I'd be

Beth: Like, girl, you are making bad choices right now. Don't do that. I think that Michelle Obama would be very fun to travel with, so let's go with her right now. I would totally, we'll do some urban farm hunting with Michelle Obama.

Christine: Yeah, that sounds great. I think she'd be up for it as well. She seems like she'd be in for the off grid gardening too. Okay, the last question is probably the hardest one for you, but who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize in this space

Beth: That is really, really hard? So many that are really doing great work. I think somebody who has always been like a beacon for me is Lola Aima, which I'm sure she's been called out on this before many times. But the reason I want to call her out this time is because she has really carved an amazing niche for herself and she's like a fellow creator in the way that I see myself as a creator, like author, photographer, entrepreneur, does all these things, but she is so genuine and she's still really genuinely makes time for others. She was actually the first person to leave me an Amazon review when my book came out and I was just like, I know it's such a little thing, but it's just like for somebody so busy, for them to take that time and be like, yeah, I'm going to write an Amazon review or whatever. It just says so much about your character and she spends so much time lifting other people up, and I think it's worth recognizing that just listening and hearing people is like everything.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, thank you. Such a beautiful space to end the conversation on, and I agree, and also I think she's coming with us and Michelle on this grand adventure because why not? If we're building the dream, let's just go the big. That

Beth: Would be fun.

Christine: I think she'd come. So also that's the great thing about that. Well, Beth, thank you so much for being here. I know we could have probably gone on for another hour with all of these things, but I really appreciate your time. I treasure being adjacent to you in this space, in this industry right now, and I can't wait to see you in person soon in Salt Lake City for wits. And yeah, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your book, and we'll leave all of the notes where people can find Wonder Woman, which is available now.

Beth: Thank you, Christine. My pleasure. Thanks everybody. Thank you.

Christine: Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she Sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Conte. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.