Designing Impactful Travel with Local Experts with Alexis Bowen

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Alexis Bowen.

Alexis Bowen is a respected expert in the travel and tourism industry and co-founder of Elsewhere, a travel marketplace connecting travelers with local experts worldwide. She has been featured by top publications such as the New York Times, Vogue, and USA Today, and was chosen as the face of Canva’s ‘Start-up Success Story’ in their prime-time international television campaign. Drawing on her experience working with major industry players, and as a response to the state of the industry, Alexis co-launched Elsewhere in 2021 to shake up the all-too-traditional tourism space with a digital approach, values-driven mission, and direct-to-local model. The company was acquired by Lonely Planet in 2022. When not focused on growing her company, Alexis can be found exploring. She has hitchhiked and couch-surfed her way around the world and is happiest in her simplest state – with only a backpack and a limited schedule. A California native, Alexis spent the last ten years living in Paris before recently relocating back to her home city of San Francisco to begin a new adventure - raising her little girl.

Christine and Alexis discuss:

· Shared passion for getting economic impact direct to local economies and communities
· How to avoid economic leakage in tourism
· How local experts add incredible value to travelers’ experiences
· Roller coaster of the entrepreneurial journey
· Being acquired by Lonely Planet
· Alexis’s solo travel journey to London with a case of wine as her only luggage

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Alexis Bowen.

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

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Discover your next adventure with Elsewhere by Lonely Planet.

Connect with Alexis on LinkedIn. 

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• 12:36 (Cont.) Designing Impactful Travel with Local Experts with Alexis Bowen

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to the Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine Weiner Irik, the founder of Lotus Sojourns, a book lover, Yogi mom of three girls and your guide On this journey. We are here to discover why women who are seasoned travelers, industry professionals, and global community leaders fall in love with the people and places of this planet. Join me to explore how travel has inspired our guests to change the world. We seek to understand the driving force, unending curiosity and wanderlust that can best be described as the soul of Travel. Soul of Travel Podcast is a proud member of the Journey, woman Family, where we work to create powerful forums for women to share their wisdom and inspire meaningful change in travel. In each soulful conversation, you'll hear compelling travel stories alongside tales of what it takes to bring our creative vision to life as we're living life with purpose, chasing dreams and building businesses to make the world a better place. But the real treasure here is the story of the journey as we reflect on who we were, who we are, and who we're becoming. We are travelers, thought leaders and heart-centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel.

Alexis Bowen is a respected expert in the travel and tourism industry, and co-founder of Elsewhere, a travel marketplace connecting travelers with local experts worldwide. She has been featured by top publications such as New York Times Vogue, and USA today and was chosen as the face of canvas's startup success story in their primetime international television campaign, drawing on her experience working with major industry players, and as a response to the state of the industry, Alexis co launched elsewhere in 2021 to shake up the all to traditional tourism space with a digital approach, values driven mission, and a direct to local model. Her company was acquired by Lonely Planet in 2022. When not focused on growing her company, Alexis can be found exploring. She has hitchhiked and couch surfed her way around the world and is happiest in her simplest state with only a backpack and a limited schedule.

A California native Alexis spent the last 10 years living in Paris before recently relocating back to her home city of San Francisco to begin a new adventure raising her little girl. In our conversation, Alexis and I dig into some of the things we have seen in our years traveling and in the industry. We have a shared passion for getting economic impact direct to communities and local economies. We talk about how we can avoid economic leakage, how local experts add incredible value to travelers' experiences. The roller coaster of the entrepreneurial journey being acquired by Lonely Planet and the time she solo traveled to London at the age of 13 with a case of wine as her checked luggage. I think this story safely takes a place at the top of my first travel experiences list. Join me now for my soulful conversation with Alexis Bowen.

Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I'm Christine, and today I'm really excited to be sitting down with Alexis Bowen, who is the founder of Elsewhere. And this is a really fun conversation that I'm excited to have because it has come about through one of my favorite hobbies, which is combing the internet and especially LinkedIn for people whose posts just speak to me. And now because of the podcast, I can reach out and be like, oh my gosh, I love that post. I'd love to talk to you, which is before earlier in my career. I would just feel weird about that. Now this gives me the perfect opportunity to actually get to connect with women like yourself and hear your story and have a great excuse to do so. So I'm really excited today, Alexis, to hear from you and share your journey with our listeners.

Alexis: Thanks for reaching out, Christine. LinkedIn is an amazing platform for that. I'm so happy you found me through that.

Christine: Yeah, I feel like this is my second conversation that is going to be totally LinkedIn infused and we were joking last time about needing a sponsorship, but it might need to happen. I feel like I have become the greatest advocate for LinkedIn, but it's really helpful I think for really meaningful connections in the workspace

Alexis: And thought leadership. It's a great, I agree. It's a great platform. Yeah. Well, excited to be here.

Christine: Yeah, thank you. Well, to begin our conversation, I actually just wanted to turn it over to you first and invite you to tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and elsewhere and then we'll dive into everything else more in depth as we go along.

Alexis: Great. I'm Alexis Bowen. I am one of the founders of elsewhere. We were recently acquired by Lonely Planet recently, meaning about two years in the journey with them elsewhere is a marketplace. So sometimes we call ourselves the Airbnb of travel, meaning that we link travelers with local experts all over the world to plan personalized hyper curated trips.

Christine: Perfect. Well, I can't wait to hear more, especially the entrepreneurial side, but before we get there, I want to hear a little bit about you and your experience in travel. And I'm curious, when did you first start traveling? Was this something that was throughout your life and your background or something that you fell into later on in your journey?

Alexis: Yeah, that's a great question. So it's actually interesting. I took myself on my first international trip. My mom is definitely, I got her explorer personality from her. She was always throwing us in the car and driving us to new places. But my parents had us relatively young. We were three kids on a carpenter salary. International travel was not part of growing up. It was not a reality for us. So I always wanted to travel. I always had that wanderlust was always interested in hearing about people and places that were so foreign and so different to me. So when I was 12 years old, I decided that I was going to make this a reality. I got myself a job totally illegally, worked in a cafe, so funny, I had to sign of these papers. I wouldn't touch any knives or anything hot, all of which I just man the espresso machine and set tables.

So I mean completely not what I was supposed to be doing as a 12-year-old, but I worked for a year in this cafe by the end of the year, my 13th, I was 13 years old and that summer I bought a ticket to England in Ireland and I went by myself, got myself a passport, flew across the world, and I was staying with people that I roughly knew. They were friends of parents, they were friends of family, that kind of thing. And I want myself, it was wild. I look back at it at 13, can't believe I did it.

Christine: Oh my goodness, that is so crazy and inspiring and I want my kids both to hear it and never hear that opportunity. I don't even know that it could happen. Now there's so many different things in place that would probably not allow for that to happen.

Alexis: I know, it's so funny. I mean I literally boarded the plane by myself, had very few questions, but the funniest thing was my parents said, okay, your thing with people. And I had saved up some cash for traveling around, to be honest. I hitchhiked a lot while I was there, which is so wild as a 13-year-old. But they gave me a case of wine. I'm from California and they gave me a case of wine and they said, okay, for every person that you stay with, you need to give them a bottle of wine. So I landed at Heathrow by myself, arrived at baggage claim to pick up my case of wine and customs pulled me over and they're like, what is this? And I was like, well, it's wine. And they're like, how old are you? And I said, 13. And they're like, so you're moving alcohol across international borders?

And they held me accustomed and didn't know what to do with me for a while. And I had, it was my great uncle who was on the other side of arrivals waiting for me who had no idea what was going on. And finally they were just like, we don't know what to do with the 13-year-old in there in this case of wives. Let's just let her go. And so they sent me out and it was now looking back on it, it's so funny because at the time I just didn't understand what the big deal was.

Christine: Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's completely hilarious. Yeah, I can only imagine. And again, trying to imagine my daughter who recently we were traveling and she had a bag of my scratch hydration powder in her backpack when we were boarding and something set off at customs when we were going through and they were testing all the things and then they tested possible explosives. So then they moved her to a different space, pulled everything apart, and she was just freaking out. And then they brought in dogs, they brought in the bomb team and all of this was happening. And she is just looking at me. She's like, mom, what is going on? And they tested it and then the man that did the last test from the bomb squad came over and he was all in black with his army boots and everything. And he's like, so I have to tell you, it tested positive. And we both looked at each other and also it was half gone because I've been drinking it for a couple months and he is like, positive for sugar, you're free to go. And I was,

Alexis: Oh my gosh, who does that? That's terrible. He's just

Christine: Terrible.

Alexis: He probably, that's how he gets his kicks, just scaring travelers. That's so funny.

Christine: And so imagining you standing there with this wine, she would die. Now, anytime we go through customs, she's just so nervous that anything's going to happen. But I love that you had that experience and I can't imagine how empowering in that moment, you probably didn't even realize that what you were doing was unusual, but looking back, confidence that instilled in you without you knowing,

Alexis: But there's a confidence that comes with naivete. I had no idea. And I always had this independent, adventurous spirit. I mean, I think my parents would call it rebellious, but I was like, I can do this. I always wanted to get everywhere by myself, do everything by myself. And yeah, I don't know. It didn't shake me that much. And it wasn't actually until many years after that I looked back on that and realized how silly that whole thing was and how they just let me go. And I was a 13-year-old kid moving alcohol across international borders and thought there should be nothing wrong with that.

Christine: But I wonder now hindsight and knowing a little bit about your business, which we're going to speak more about how that kind of travel and going and traveling with family and hitchhiking and really seeing the country, you obviously were connecting with all sorts of people, if that's the way you were traveling around. Do you think that was something that shaped how you see travel and how you see the possibilities of travel or connection or the importance of local people even when you're traveling? Because early on you were really relying upon them for your experience?

Alexis: Absolutely. I think staying with locals and being with locals is so important to having a good trip. And a good trip can be defined as so many things, but for me that's new perspectives, understanding different ways of life, all of that. You can travel when you don't travel with a locally, you travel very surface. You're going and you're seeing things and things are different, but you're not getting under the skin of a place and really having an understanding of what it's like to actually live there and be a part of that society. And so yeah, that trip was fascinating, interesting. It was like the gateway drug of travel for me. It was England. I spoke the same language. It was the perfect first trip for me and before college it really set me off. After that, I wanted to always have another trip planned, and I took a series of really interesting adventurous trips after that that were all very foundational to my experience. But really I needed that first international trip by myself to realize that I could do it. And also that people are so great on the other side, people would just see me. And I don't know if it was because I was a young girl by myself or what, but people invited me into their homes and wanted to take me out and show me around. And there was so much generosity and true kindness and excitement to see me doing this and seeing my own excitement, seeing their world was really cool for them.

Christine: Yeah, I love that It really facilitated that idea of exchange. So you were seeing both things through your eyes, but witnessing what it was like for them to host you. And so again, this idea that travel is about immersion connection, being a guest, those all seem so important in what comes later for you.

Alexis: Absolutely.

Christine: I would love to hear then from that, how did you end up in the tourism industry? Was it a real natural progression because you loved travel so much or is it something that just kind of happened?

Alexis: Yeah, I think looking back on it, it was clear that I would always end up in travel. I took a couple more really amazing trips before I went into college. And then in college I studied international development, but I actually thought I wanted to get into the music industry. I worked for a year at South by Southwest and I realized this is so not what I want to do. It didn't feel transformative in the way that I think travel is. And I immediately came back, got a job in the travel industry, and I honestly haven't looked back since.

Christine: Yeah, I love how for some people it's just literally a part of our anatomy almost. Totally. It's something that you can't get rid of. And for me, that was really where Soul of Travel came from, is witnessing that in people. And then the podcast came out of the pandemic and seeing what were people doing now that they couldn't travel, now that they've essentially lost an essential organ, how do they go on being and seeing also the love and care that my colleagues had for people all around the world and what they were doing to step up to continue to be connected and to provide support or look for the ways they could continue to have an impact during the pandemic. That's what initially kind of lit the podcast. I wanted to say this is the soul of travel. It's a really important thing. It's not just I can't go on a vacation. Something is dying in our world because we're losing this connection both for individuals and a greater community. And I know for you, your business also was kind of birthed in this time, so I'd love to hear from you. What was that moment like and where did that come from?

Alexis: Yeah, so I had been working in travel with my co-founder and it was 2020, it was actually the summer of 2020. So we were living in Paris, France, and everything was completely locked down. I know that everyone said the US was locked down, things were closed, but Paris was really locked down. You weren't allowed to leave your apartment. You could only leave for certain necessary items, which were like pharmacy and the grocery store. And you had to time and date stamp the time that you went out and you could only go out for an hour at a time. You couldn't go out with multiple people in your household. That one representative had to go out and come back. I mean, it was true lockdown. There was a curfew on the town, nobody could go out past 6:00 PM regardless of what was happening. I mean, it was truly, truly wild.

And so we were at home, everything, the travel industry was basically in hibernation mode. And we had worked with all of these amazing DMCs, so you are very familiar with this, but for people on the podcast, DMCs are destination management companies and they're essentially local travel agencies. One people who live the companies that live in the country. So a lot of people don't know how the travel industry works. If you work with a National Geographic or an Abercrombie in Kent or any of these big tour operators, they're working with another agency on the ground. And so I had always worked in these luxury tour operators, geographic expeditions. Now X was one that I worked with in San Francisco. They're an amazing, amazing tour operator, a luxury provider. They really push the boundary on exceptional travel, and they're still the gold star for me in terms of very quality travel.

They do some really amazing things. And so they work, they have a team of travel advisors who then pass the request on and the trip on to a destination management company who handles that. So anyways, we had this amazing network of travel agencies all over the world who are completely out of work, not getting any pay and saying, is there anything we can do? You guys know the American market. Is there anyone traveling? How can we make money? When is this going to end? And they were coming to us for help. It was actually my co-founder's idea. And he said, Hey, we should start something right now. This is really the time to lay the ground work, build something new. We have all of these amazing people at our disposal because previously they're all contracted and they work for these great companies and they're too busy to take a chance on a new startup.

But Covid really gave us the chance to say, Hey, we're going to start something. It's going to be a marketplace that cuts out, the intermediary travelers are going to work directly with you. You can really define what travel looks like in your destination, set prices that are fair to you and fair to all of your suppliers and communicate directly with travelers. And they were so excited about this idea and they joined us and I think they joined us out of sheer desperation. Sure, we'll try it, whatever. We just need to get some kind of business. But I mean now they really see it as the future of travel, that there's no need for intermediaries. They should be speaking directly with travelers about the trips that they're taking.

Christine: Yeah, I think it's so valuable and so important. And I think I also appreciate you talking about the structure of the industry because I think that's what I was really noticing in the conversations I was having is that people often would see just the tip of the iceberg, which is where they buy their ticket, where they board a cruise ship, where they meet with an agency, they just knew their experience, but they didn't know all of these pieces underneath that actually are what are the foundation of their experience. And I think that those of us in the industry, those are the people that we felt really connected to and could see the impact This meant, like you were saying, this meant their family lost all of their economic income. They had no other choices because tourism people were so dependent on tourism in so many places around the world. And so I felt like when I read what you were doing, this model is really important for people see below the surface. So again, not just having a deeper experience, but understanding where travel comes from is all these pieces that sometimes get erased in the tourism experience when you're looking at bigger businesses.

Alexis: Absolutely. We call them the hidden heroes of the industry because they're the ones who are actually building and operating these trips, yet there's no face of people don't know who they are, they don't know what they're doing. It's just masked under some western tour operator's name. And so when we created elsewhere, there was a lot of talk about usually founders are at the front of every company. There's our story, what we're about. There's their photos everywhere. And Craig and I said, this isn't about us. We shouldn't have our bios on this website at all. We shouldn't have our faces on this. And it's about the people that we're working with. They're the ones doing the amazing things, and they're the ones who have the amazing stories to tell and who our travelers will connect with. And it is about fostering these connections with people and destination. We talk a lot about traveling beneath the surface. And like I said, working with a local is such an important way to do that.

Christine: Yeah, I think another term that people might not be familiar with, but definitely happens is white labeling. So when you come in as an operator working with a local DMC, they're like, I'm so happy to white label this. Everything will come with your logo. And I remember at first thinking, oh, that's really interesting. When I first got into the industry thinking, oh, that's how everything looks uniform. And then when I launched my own business and I started reaching out to my contacts and they would say that, and I was thinking, gosh, this feels so wrong to me. I actually spent a lot of time thinking about who I want to partner with. And it's because you are and you are the magic. I'm like, please don't. Yes, people are coming with me. They're coming for you, and I want you to be the storyteller and I want you to be the shepherd through this experience because I can't do it. That's why I need you. So again, this is why I was so drawn to the way that you were creating this exchange.

Alexis: Absolutely. And as well, that they should be determining what travel looks like in their destination. When you go with a Western tour operator, they say, Hey, this is what sells on a trip to Peru. You need to do four days in the Sacred Valley. We want to have one day in Machu Picchu and then two days in the Amazon, and you need to book these hotels. And in this sequence and at this price, which is complete, I mean one, it doesn't actually dictate how travel should look. They're saying the Sacred Valley is amazing, but there's actually these communities that's so over touristed and there's these other communities that really show this way of life in a much more authentic way. The Inca Trail, you don't want to do the Inca Trail because it's switched back to the same exact view and it's over tourist and there's trash all over the trail.

All of these things, or even Machu Picchu, there's another site that's so much more off the beaten path that doesn't have the same footfall, but you'll have the same experience in the same understanding of a place in its cultural significance. So giving them the autonomy to determine what travel looks like in their destination means that the traveler will have a better trip themselves. But also icing. I mean, I don't think we realize how much Western operators are squeezing suppliers by saying, okay, well no, we need to make it this price. And then they're squeezing their entire supply chain. Whereas with our model, our DMCs, our local travel agencies are doing the sales and the operations for the trip. So they're incentivized to make the sale. They want to make the sale. So they're honest with their pricing. They're fair and their pricing, to be honest, I don't think they take enough, but they're still doing what they get to determine what is fair for them. We're not dictating the prices that they have to operate on. And we've all seen the horror stories of the industries of Sherpas in Nepal and how little they're getting paid and how much they're being overworked and in unsafe conditions and underpaid. And so this is the way to really put the microphone back in the community and say, show us your home country and you tell us what is a fair price.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, this is two such good things. So I'm just thinking of all these events that I go to when I meet with other operators and local DMCs and trying to figure out who I might want to work with. And they start putting together packages and they'll tell me, the conversation always starts, how much do you want this to cost per day? Again, my brain is like, how much does this cost per day? I don't know that you're the one that tells me the value of your experience. And sometimes I get what quality of your hotel are your guests looking for? And that kind of thing. And then that gives them an idea. But I often feel like that exchange doesn't feel equal to me. You wouldn't go into the store and be like, I'm only buying $3 of $3 per pound apples today. The store tells you how much apples cost and then you decide if you want to buy the apples or if you need to buy something else. And so

For me, that was also kind of the spread flag about how things are structured. And then the other thing I love that you were talking about is hearing the story that the destination wants to tell you, that the operators want to tell you. You'll sit down at these meetings and you see, here's the things that everybody buys. And then maybe someone, and especially for me, they look at my website and they are like, Ms. Christine, I noticed you really speak about this and I'm really excited. This is something different. Can I share this idea I had? And that's always the one, right? That's the one. This is magic. This is absolutely what I want to do. Because you can see their love or this thing that they've been so excited about that nobody else really wanted to do, or this area that isn't Machu Picchu, which again, for me, when I launched my business, I had a Peru trip. It's not too Machu Picchu doesn't include it. And everyone was like, well, I think you'd really be selling more if you were offering Machu Picchu. And I was like, yes. And I'm a small company. I don't want to sell more. I want to sell this because of the impact it has. So I think it's so important to be talking about this because I think this is how we can really create change and equity within the industry.

Alexis: Absolutely. And just on that point, we always find that travelers enjoy the more off the beaten path experience or the real life experience rather than the Machu Picchu or the Taj Mahal. It's the smaller towns. It's the having tea with somebody, a chai on a roadside stand. Those are the things that people remember and are truly the things that people carry with them, not the ticket to the Taj Mahal or to Machu Picchu. And on this discussion too. And a big arm of the industry is cultural exploitation. And I think by not giving the destination the autonomy to determine these trips and how they should be seen, I mean it is awful, but a way to combat that is by giving them the microphone and the control to determine what it is. And I think a lot of travelers kind of don't understand what cultural exploitation is or how to go, how to travel better. But I guess if I were to define it, it's like this tendency to trap people in these certain stereotypical or anti-modern ways, and a lot of Western tour operators continue to churn out the same kind of storytelling that hasn't progressed as people have progressed and have things have modernized. They keep telling the same story. So it's really about promoting this authentic exchange where people have the autonomy to tell their own story in their own way.

Christine: And I think it's really something that we feel and sense. I know for me early in my travel travels, I would feel it and I would be like, I don't know what this is, but it doesn't feel right. And I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but we also didn't have language for it yet. We hadn't started to come up with all of these words that we are now using to describe that type of experience. And we are evolving, right, as travelers and as an industry. And so now we have a way to talk about it and a way to kind of examine it and look for different experiences. And so I think for travelers listening to this that moment, I think you'll know what it is. It feels a way and you're like, Hmm, I'm just not sure about what's happening here. And just to know that there's a lot of people creating trips now who have felt that and are really conscious about ensuring that something different is happening when they're traveling.

Alexis: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Christine: Hey, it's Christine interrupting this episode for just a minute to invite you to join me for my women's Wilderness and yoga retreat in Alaska in March of 2025. I'm putting on my Lotus Sojourns hat for just a minute to tell you about this incredible experience that will have you traveling 63 miles north of the Arctic Circle to stay at Arctic Hive, which is owned by my friend Molly Busby and her husband Sean. This boutique property is nestled in the Brooks Range and it's way off the beaten path and also off grid will stay in beautiful cabins built by hand by our hosts, practice yoga in their yoga dome, lovingly referred to as the hive with gorgeous views of surrounding nature. We'll explore the wilderness by snowshoe and dog sled, connect with members of the local community to learn about living in this remote environment, enjoy daily yoga practice, nourishing meals, all while keeping our eye out for the beautiful Northern Lights that like to show off their magic at this time of year.

And scientists are saying that 2025 is expected to be one of the most magnificent displays in recent history. I guided this journey in 2023 and it's one of the most requested trips to offer. Again, I only have six spaces for this unique adventure, and a few are already taken. I'd suggest pausing this episode and hopping over to the Lotus Soren's website to book yours today. Please share this experience with anyone who would love this restorative adventure. If you want to learn more, you can listen to my Soul of Travel conversation episode 67 with Molly Busby to hear about the Arctic Archive and her yoga journey. You can also get on my Soul of Travel and Lotus Sojourns mailing list to join upcoming information sessions to hear about this and other departures that are happening in 2025. Now let's hop back to our soulful conversation. Another thing I really wanted to talk to you, and it's kind of along this vein of thought as well, is economic leakage, which I think is again something that travelers might not be aware of. Even people in the industry I think often aren't thinking about what this looks like. So I wanted to ask you to define it, how you define it, and then just talk a little bit about how we can maybe combat this.

Alexis: Economic leakage is simply the act of money spent by tourists leaving the destination or leaving the host country. So the UN says that as little as 10 to 30% of money spent on vacation is actually reinvested back into the destination, which is wild. We think that when we're going, every single dollar that we spend is invested back into a circular economy and supporting the people, the place, infrastructure, all of that stuff. In reality, that is absolutely not the case, and that's primarily down to foreign ownership. So this is large hotel chains, this is cruise ships, these big multinational hotels, restaurants, whatever, that are not paying taxes in their home country, that the money is literally just being transplanted outside. And the UN also says that 80% of low income countries actually rely on tourism as a means of lifting themselves out, of improving their economic situation.

And we know that just that doesn't happen. And then actually in these developing countries, they're most negatively infected by tourism. So it's really sadd catch 22 where these are the countries that are relying on tourism to lift them out of poverty. In reality, they're actually most negatively being affected. And this really depends on destinations. Some of the worst examples of course, are the Caribbean and cruise ships where people are bust in, they're eating and spending all of their money on board, and then they have the footfall on the islands, but not actually spending any money on the islands. And the islands are welcoming them saying, come, we need your tourist dollars, but they're not actually supporting or giving any benefit to those host destinations.

Christine: Thank you for walking us through that. And I was just in Belize last week actually, and visiting this little, what used to be this little fishing village that I've been going to for 20 years and seeing how much it's changed and actually being really aware that the conversation about the cruise industry in Belize specifically has been a back and forth. And this village was like the last frontier. They were really coming together as a community hoping to try to keep that from being a part of the tourism industry there because they didn't have the infrastructure to support it. They had seen where it brings in actually just more taxation on their limited resources and not the economic benefit. And witnessing them in this dialogue over this amount of time has been very interesting, but to also see how much it's changed and how much the community now is for tourism versus before. And it was also really interesting. I was walking, there's just this very small sidewalk that you walk through this village to see everything that's there. And one of my daughters said, I'm really confused about this place. Is this a place where people live or a place where people travel?

Alexis: Wow, what a great question.

Christine: And I was like, well, I feel it right now. Almost in tears. I was like, isn't this the question? And I was like, yeah. I said, that's so

Alexis: Well put

Christine: To observe that. And I said, this used to be a place that I felt like people lived and I got to travel to. And now it feels like a pace where people travel to that some people live to support travel,

Alexis: To support.

Christine: And so I just think I don't really have any solution to that, but it was such a powerful awareness. But I also saw where they had built a new dock for ferrying in some cruise visitors. It's very restricted, I think, compared to other areas. But then they had the booths on the dock and you knew those were the booths where people would go and buy their goods, and those are being commissioned by the cruise companies and not actually bringing travelers that far into the village. So I think it's just so interesting to start to look at that when you travel. And in some places it might not be as black and white as it was there, but to just be aware of your choices. And I know one of the things that I also wanted to talk to you about is how can a single traveler have an impact? And I think that would be a great thing to build off of this because this is really what we're looking at is once you kind of understand some of these pieces, then you're like, okay, now what do I do? So I would love to just get your thoughts on what can we do to make sure that we're having as much of a positive impact as we can if that's what we're seeking to do.

Alexis: So there's a bunch of things an individual traveler can do. If I was just going to sum it up, I would say one, go with welcome and two, leave as little impact as possible. So what does that mean in practice? A few practical things is one, travel slower. So this really offsets the environmental impact if you're just staying in one place longer, but you're also getting to understand the place better. I know we all had come from this idea of Euro trips where you're two days in every single place that helps nobody. It is also not a good experience for yourself. So travel, still getting connect with community and cultures is really important. Book locally owned, we talked about economic leakage. This is number one. Most important is find places that are owned and operated locally that are hiring local people, that are paying fair wages, that is of utmost importance.

Same with guides and drivers. Obviously local owned but also paid a decent wage. They have to have fair pay, safe working conditions over tourism. We talked about this at your beliefs example. I mean, this is so important. And for me, this is the number one thing that I look at over tourism really distorts the social contract between travelers and local people. And so I look at the ratio, what is the ratio between travelers and people who actually live there and not people who live there to support travelers? And there's travel off season. These are just some really off obvious ones. If you are going to go to those touristy areas, travel off season visit, main points of interest in off peak hours, all of these things helps to offset football. Leave no trace, we talked about that. That's really like pack in, pack out, very obvious, stay on trails.

Don't degrade the environment in any way. That is not absolutely necessary. I think this is such an important one, but just be respectful and people don't talk about this enough. Learn the etiquette, learn, just look up how people dress and what the cultural norms are. This is about respect, and I know a lot of travelers want to wear certain outfits. I see this a lot in Morocco and it hurts me that they're dressing what is seen by the culture. The local culture is disrespectful. They want a good photo in their outfit. I mean, this is just a big one for me. Be mindful of what people deem as appropriate in that area. And just seeking out authentic exchange, which we already talked about, your fear of cultural exploitation and you do feel that gut feeling, but making sure that when you are exchanging with local people, making sure that they're able to tell their own story in their own way and are autonomous, they're not being tracked in this one often anti-modern stereotype.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. So many good points there. I really appreciate that. And the one that I feel like for me, well actually I think all of these come back to the fact that you're a guest. This I think is so important that so many people have this what happens in Vegas mentality about travel, that there's no rules. They're on vacation, they're traveling, they're free. So their behavior, there's

Alexis: No repercussions,

Christine: Accountability for it. And I understand the idea of wanting to be free and relax, but we are guests and I think of anything the pandemic showed us what a privilege or should have shown us what a privilege travel is.

Alexis: Absolutely. That

Christine: It's not a guarantee that it's always there and that we need to really be respectful of this experience and all of the things that allow us to have this experience. And then we're in someone's home. And I just think that that mindset shift is really important. And the cultural understanding, I think this, it just breaks my heart to be someplace like I've been in these beautiful sacred waterfalls in Bali and reading the signs all along the way that say, this is what this place means to us. Please use gentle language. This is sacred land, please. All these things that are telling us how to be the guest of this area. And you get to the bottom and there's people drinking and in thong bikinis trying to get the Insta shot. And it makes me feel ashamed to be a part of the mechanism that makes this happen sometimes and also feel really passionate about the conversation we're having right now. And how important,

Alexis: Yeah, I really love that idea of traveling like a guest of the destination. Go if welcome, you're invited, act respectfully. This is reciprocal. I think that's too much too often under respected. And I also think that people think that traveling in a sustainable way is maybe not necessarily means they'll have a better trip, but there are ways to state your wander less that don't leave a place culturally and environmentally depleted. And we need to remember that. And it often leads to, I think always leads to a much better trip. And we need to ask ourselves if we're being extractive in our tourism and in our travels, and like I said, traveling with locals, frequenting local establishments. This means that you're going to have a better trip yourself. You are getting to the heart and soul of the destination and you're having these immersive life changing experiences. You're seeing new perspectives. You're coming home with a wider and more inclusive view. So I like this idea of better trips for the destination, better trips for you, A trip that is naturally sustainable responsible will also mean a better trip for you as a traveler.

Christine: Yeah, I fully agree. And I think it's just shifting what people's expectations out of travel. And like you said, realizing this doesn't mean you're getting something less. It usually means you're getting something more.

Alexis: Absolutely. And I think the problem with sustainable travel and talking about all this is there's so many technical terms, there's sustainable, there's regenerative and economic leakage, and all of these things sound confusing. And in reality, what happens is people are less likely to join the cause because they don't quite understand what it means. And it is simple and we shouldn't have. The debate between regeneratives and sustainable, I often say is misguided. Sustainability is not binary. It's a spectrum. And there's benefit, there is benefits at looking at something regenerative versus net zero, but this whole argument and debate about which one is better is just confusing the general public and meaning that less people are adopting these very simple principles.

Christine: Yeah, I agree. Well, I love this part and we have a little bit of time left, but I really want to talk to you about your entrepreneurial journey. I think this is something, especially in watching your work that I think is really important and I want to tap into you in this space. So I had recently had a conversation with my friend Iris Ku, and she mentioned something that a friend of ours shared with her that in this journey never quit on a bad day. And I also saw a post that you just shared about Matador Network had written an article and you had mentioned a startup as a bipolar existence, and you can live or die on any one day. And so I wanted to talk to you about this. I know you know this energy and I'm wondering how you navigate it and find your footing in this up and down and roller coaster.

Alexis: God, it is such a rollercoaster. I often say a startup is like dog years, a week is a year, and anything can change in that time. And it's so true. Yeah, it is a rollercoaster for sure.

Christine: Yeah. So is there anything that you have experienced that our listeners might relate to in terms of things that were big yeses or things that were nos or things that you've learned to lean into through this entrepreneurial journey that maybe you hadn't learned up to this point in your career?

Alexis: I guess I'd say two main things. One, if you're going to launch a company, founders need to be irrationally exuberant. You need to have this kind of irrational optimism about your company and truly, truly believe that it's going to work because you're going to get knocked down time and again, you have to get back up and start again, and you need to wake up every morning and essentially make up answers to problems that you've never seen before. That is what building a business is. And I know you're smiling because that is what it is. And I'd say second is just Don, don't discount the hard work that goes into it. You need to be obsessed with it. It needs to take priority if you're actually going to make it work. And that was the benefit of us starting our company in Covid, was that we were actually locked down and we were working 12 to 15 hours a day and we could dedicate ourselves to a project like that, whereas before, I think it would've been hard for me to shut off so much of my life to build something. But you need to put that much energy and attention in to keep the momentum going. And I think momentum is so important. Always be moving to the next level. And long days unfortunately are just a reality. Your work-life balance comes later, but when you're starting something you got to put in the time.

Christine: Yeah, I think it's so relatable to even what I was saying before, it's like this organ that just, it's a part of you and you have to hold onto it like it is or many of us do, which I think is maybe good or bad because we're so attached and invested to it, or maybe even

Alexis: I can relate to that so much.

Christine: This thing that you birthed, right? This is your baby. And then also if you're looking at the journey when you have a newborn twenty four seven, it's really like 47 7, right? Yes. And so you have to expect that this is it. This is what you are doing. And I think also much parenthood, you can't understand it until you're in it. You don't know what that feels like to be constantly on in your business. And even if you're not sitting at your desk, you're like

Alexis: Something

Christine: And then it happens and you're like off to the next 52 things you could maybe do. And they're like, oh, wait a second. I forgot this is what I'm doing. So you're just constantly circling in it. And I think it's such an unusual space that so many people can't relate to if they haven't been in it.

Alexis: Yes, it takes a lot of grit, a lot of perseverance.

Christine: I do think you have to be in love with it because if you don't, like you've said, you're going to quit because man, it is not easy. And I think that a really hard part about that is you are constantly not knowing what you're doing, and most people aren't comfortable with that. I just remember someone being like, well, what's your SEO ranking for your website? And I was like, oh, I think it's average. Get off the call. And you're like, Google, SEO, what is that?

Alexis: Yeah, totally, totally. I remember when I did a trekking trip in Nepal through the Anna Peres and I came back and I was at a family get together later that summer, and my aunt was just like, I just don't understand. How did you do it? And I was like, you just go and you just figure it out. And that's how I feel like building a businesses, you just do it and you figure it out along the way. You don't have anything planned out. You don't know what you're doing. You're just like step one, open an LLC, step two, open a business bank account. And it's just checking off these things. And like I said, every single morning, waking up and being like, okay, I've got this new problem I've never had. How do I make up an answer? And you realize that that's what everyone running a business is doing. And everyone's like, what's your go-to-market strategy? And they have all of these consultant terms and you're like, my go to market strategy is how do I get the most amount of reach for the least amount of money? Isn't that all of our strategies? And you could package it in all of these fancy words and business speak, but in reality, that's what it's,

Christine: Yeah, and I think it's so helpful too when you find a space maybe where people are really authentic and vulnerable about that so that you can see that you're not the only one sitting there googling things in the late hours of night to figure out what on earth you're doing in your business that no matter what their business looks like from the outside, that they have gone through the same things behind the scenes.

Alexis: Totally. And on that point, Christine, I have to say, I relied so much on help from others. And what I learned is if you write a well-written, thoughtful email to anyone, they will respond and you come with that vulnerability and say, Hey, I'd love to pick your brain. I respect you for these reasons, and I think I can learn from you. People respond. And I think that's really those kind of connections and just getting help and putting ourselves out there and saying, I don't know what I'm doing, or, Hey, can I talk you through this thing that I'm thinking was such a great way to really get us off the ground and build connections in the industry.

Christine: Yeah. Well, from that, I would love to hear from you about your working with Lonely Planet and what it was like for that, I guess phone call or email, however that arrived, and then going back to this is your baby, how do you figure out what it looks like when it grows up? Does it go to Lonely Planet College or does it keep going on this independent track?

Alexis: Yeah, you're so right that it's, I'd say elsewhere is my first baby, and it is, it'll always be my baby. And you said before for good or bad, and I agree that sometimes you care too much and it means you don't make the right decisions. So it's important to have that amount of distance where you can make rational, thoughtful decisions, but it's a hard decision to sell it. We were approached really early. I think we have a dream of a journey when it comes to startups. We were acquired at nine months. Doesn't mean that there were not ups and downs in those nine months. Like I said, I still thought we could die at any day, but it was a short journey in the terms of startup acquisitions, and there was a lot that went through our head. On one side, we were so overwhelmed that the fact that Mold Planet was contacting us, they sent us an email and they could have sent us a cease and desist and we would've been like, oh my God, they know who we are.

We don't care. It's like we were just lonely. Planets a brand that we admired and we've been carrying around books our entire lives, and they remain one of the most respected thought leaders in the industry. And so we were so overwhelmed and just, there's no word for how we felt when we first got an email from them. We were interested in them talking. They did not say they were interested in acquisition at first. They kept it very, very vague, and we would just have these conversations. And later it turned out that they said we're interested in partnership or an acquisition. And yeah, we were overjoyed, right? I mean, like I said, not only this deep love from Lonely Planet, but it meant that elsewhere would live on and elsewhere meant so much to us. We cared so much and we wanted to see it be bigger than us.

We always had this dream that this is the way that travel should be in the future. But on the flip side, there's lots of other things. Like we started elsewhere because we essentially built our dream job. The day-to-Day is so fun. We're building these really transformative journeys from travelers and the things that we hear back from the types of trips that we create, just so it's just incredible. And that keeps us going, and that makes the day-to-Day so fun. And by selling it means it's no longer ours. And then on the other side too, we grow elsewhere as a standalone brand, and by selling it meant that we'd be a subsidiary and a less important adjacent. And that's something that we didn't really think through a lot and is maybe the only real con that I'd say about selling to Lonely Planet, just in that when we're looking at, we're considering ourselves as one company, one business, one team right now, and anytime we have to opportunity size something, it's really hard to advocate for resources on the elsewhere part of the business because it's such a small subset. The opportunity and growth for Lonely Planet is just boundless. We have so much more opportunity there. So sometimes it's hard to get what we need on elsewhere, and that's the only real, other than that, I mean, we're so happy to be aligned with the brand that we admire and trust and truly have respect for. So we've been lucky to sell. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you for talking about that because I think in this industry too, especially for a lot of small companies starting out that create really beautiful products, acquisition is a conversation that happens and it's a way that you can continue and carry on, like you said, because it's such a huge industry. It's volatile, it has all of these moving parts and pieces as we've talked about, and I think that this happens again more often than many people know about. And I've seen a lot of my friends be approached or seeing their businesses are acquired, and I was so curious how you navigate that because I know it's such an emotional decision because so many of us in our businesses are really are there because we have done all these other things and we're like, Nope, this is the thing. This is the thing. I want to exist in the world. And so you create it and then all of a sudden you're holding it and someone else, it's

Alexis: Not yours,

Christine: And you're like, it is just such an emotional thing to go

Alexis: Through. Absolutely. And when it came down to it, we cared so much about our experts, and we still do. I mean, they're the heart and soul of our entire company, and so to see them grow and to get more business and to be able to hire new people in their agency and see them expand, I mean, that's why we're doing what we're doing.

Christine: Yeah. I can relate so much because even with the podcast where it started and where it is now, the idea that as every person that finds the podcast, now here's about you and here's about any of my other guests, and then supports their businesses, and then you see that ripple out. It's huge to think about that impact for these people that mean so much to you. Right? It's not about your necessarily your own personal success, but we built this because it was important for all of the people who we felt were important in the industry. And so that also feels, I think, really different energetically to know that you built this thing that is lifting other people too.

Alexis: Absolutely.

Christine: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for this beautiful conversation. I have loved, every minute I have just a few rapid fire questions or rapid fire ish questions to end our time together. The

Alexis: First

Christine: Question is, what are you reading right now?

Alexis: I'm reading Range, David Epstein.

Christine: I don't know that book, but do you want to share?

Alexis: Oh my gosh, now I'm hesitating on the author's name. It's a business book. It's about how we live in a world of specialization and how actually generalists are the ones that thrive. That being said, I'm only fourth of the way in, but that's the takeaway that I have right now.

Christine: Perfect. I love it. I think that's really important even about our conversation we're having today.

Alexis: Absolutely.

Christine: What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?

Alexis: Tiny scissors. This is something that I know it's so funny, but I always end up using them. They're the little makeup scissors, so a big pair of scissors, customs will take it, but a tiny pair of scissors, I swear. I don't know why, but I always end up using it. They're just like, utilitarian. You can't bring pocket knives anymore. I don't have any use for a knife so much, but tiny scissors.

Christine: Yeah. Actually, I just really wish I had them in Belize, and I was thinking, I'm like, can those little tiny ones that fold up into each other make it through security? So you're answering

Alexis: The question? Yes, I can. The ones above the big

Christine: To Sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where is a place that you would still love to sojourn?

Alexis: Oh my gosh. I spent eight years living in Paris, and while I miss Europe so much, I'm so interested. I'm back in California now and I'm so interested in really exploring Central and South America. Spending time, learning the language there took me a long time to learn French, so I don't have a specific location, but it would be somewhere in Central or South America where I can learn Spanish and my daughter can learn Spanish. It's really, really important to me.

Christine: Yeah, I think it's so good and kids love the to be multilingual. My kids are obsessed with Duolingo and they just start different languages all the time, and they're just coming up and they're like, today, I know how to say this in Japanese today. I know how to say this in German. I'm like, okay, maybe I love this, but they really are really open to understanding it. What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?

Alexis: Do you mean at home or,

Christine: Yeah, just something you eat it. It really reminds you of someplace that you've traveled to.

Alexis: Oh, gosh. That's such a hard question because I've traveled so much and so many things. Bring me back. One of my most formational trips was the trip to Thailand that I did when I just got out of high school. Again, it was a trip by myself where I showed up with a ticket, had no plans and had no idea what I was doing. I just knew I needed to do a border crossing to not overstay my 30 day visit, and so a curry, a very, very spicy curry just brings me back to those trips in the northern regions of Thailand when I had no idea what I was doing, but I had my lonely planet and that was guiding me.

Christine: Yeah, I wish I need to go back and count how many of my guests have had that kind of experience in Thailand and with their lonely planet because we didn't have internet and cell phones and just landed there and just it welcomed us and took us on our journey

Alexis: And you always land at two in the morning, but Christine, it's so funny. Yeah, what you were saying about cell phones, I was just talking to somebody about this and how I actually have this nostalgia for travel without cell phones because it really meant we traveled so much more spontaneously then. We didn't have these set itineraries. We had to be guided by speaking with people, Andrew Lonely Planet. That was a very, very rough information, but you had to talk to people about getting to certain places and there was so much more interaction, whereas now people are traveling, they're calling an Uber door to door. You miss so much, and I have that nostalgia for, it was much rougher. There was much way worse stories that came out of it too, but those are the things that you remember. It's like we traveled too comfortably now.

Christine: Yeah, it's such a different experience. I could definitely do a whole episode, I think with people on that, but I even think about when I just don't feel like the discomfort of figuring out where to eat or having a language barrier around that and you're like, Uber Eats to my room and you're like, wow, I just cheated travel so much right now. I'm sorry.

Alexis: Yeah.

Christine: Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out and travel the world?

Alexis: I think it's got to be my mom. Like I said, we didn't travel internationally together, but she has this very adventurous, explorative, inquisitive. She's really curious about places, always wants to see what's behind the next hill and she'd throw us all in the car and take us anywhere that we could drive to, so we went all over California and all over the west, and she would've definitely taken us internationally if that was possible, so I definitely get that from her.

Christine: If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?

Alexis: My daughter. She's one years old, almost one, and I'm so excited to travel with her and see the world through her eyes and give her the sense of empathy, curiosity, appreciation of diverse cultures, and really open her world up to different ways of living. I feel like we're so even more and more siloed. We're getting fed only things that feed our interests or that already are confirmation bias, confirming what we already believe in and travel is such a great way to get you out of that and to see things differently and talk to people who are different than you and live differently than you.

Christine: Yeah. 1000% agree with that and how important it is and know that you'll have really beautiful experiences. I know that will be ahead for you. Soul of Travel is a space for recognizing women in the industry that we admire. Is there one person that you would like to take a moment to celebrate in this space today?

Alexis: Yes. Her name is Catalina. She's the founder of El Camino Travel, which is focused on women traveling. She's done amazing things, both the actual trips that she creates and creating and fostering a real sense of community in her travelers. I really love the work that she's doing.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much for recognizing her and again, thank you for this conversation. It has been so fun. I feel like we have talked about a lot of things that really mean a lot to me, and I really appreciate the conversation.

Alexis: Christine, this was so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. Thank

Christine: You.

Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journey Woman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes. I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www.souloftravelpodcast.com. I'm so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome, I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect. You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel podcast or follow me on Instagram, either at she Sojourns or at Soul of Travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journey Woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50. I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Conte. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.