Disrupting the Travel Industry for Inclusivity and Change with Martinique Lewis

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Martinique Lewis.

Marty Lewis is an award-winning diversity in travel consultant, President of the Black Travel Alliance, both Travel and Leisure and Travel Pulse’s ''Most influential people in travel.” And don't forget the creator of The ABC Travel Greenbook! The number one resource connecting travelers to the African Diaspora Globally. She is proud to serve on the advisory boards of Conde Nast Traveler, Hurtigruten Expedition Cruises, and the National Outdoor Leadership School. She is the change she wants to see and is committed to ensuring the travel industry is a welcoming space for all.

Christine and Marty discuss:

· The ABC Travel Greenbook
· The Black Travel Across America project with National Geographic
· Travel marketing and the importance of seeing ourselves in travel publications and assets
· Supporting Black-owned businesses in global travel

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Martinique Lewis.

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

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Download the ABC Travel Green Book App on the App Store and Google Play. 
Learn more and get your copy of the ABC Travel Greenbook.
Connect with Marty and learn about her many projects and adventures on her website.
Connect with Marty on Instagram / LinkedIn.
Learn more about the Black Travel Alliance, Women in Travel Summit, and Wanderful Women’s Travel Community.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Martinique Lewis (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to soul of travel podcast. I'm so excited today to be joined by someone who I really deeply admire in the industry. Um, she is one of these amazing women who wear so many hats. Um, so we're going to try to talk about some of them. She's wearing a hat today if you're watching the video.

Christine: So speaking of wearing so many hats, um, but when some of those hats are tech founder, um, advisory board member, digital marketing consultant. Um, TV host, and she is the executive director of Black Travel Alliance. And I want to welcome Martinique Lewis to the podcast. Thank you for being here, Marty.

Martinique: Thank you for having me.

Christine: Well, to begin, I would love to just turn it over to you. I know I just summarized some of the things you do, but I'd love for you to tell our listeners a little bit more about who you are and what you do in the travel industry.

Martinique: Right. So, hello everybody. As she stated, my name is Martinique Lewis. Everybody in the industry calls me Marti. That's how you can find me on social media at Marti underscore San Diego. But I have been in the travel industry for a long time. We're going on eight years now. I initially started off as a diversity and travel consultant.

Martinique: And the reason that I wanted to do it was because of the summit that we met at, which is the women in travel summit. And I remember at the time I was advocating for black travelers and we were sitting at a round table and a Muslim traveler said, We go through the same things. Can you imagine what I go through every time I have to go through TSA?

Martinique: And there was a mother there who said I travel with autistic child. So we can't go into certain events because of the way that the lights flash and somebody else said, I'm a plus size traveler. Do you think about everything I have to go through when I simply want to sit in a seat around the pool? And that was a really defining moment that.

Martinique: A lot of us connect through our differences. And so I said, well, I want to advocate for that also, because people aren't thinking about what other people go through if it's outside of what they look like. And so I became a diversity and travel consultant. Um, I still do that probably through the past eight years.

Martinique: And I created something called the diversity and travel scorecard, which is the real reason most people in the industry know me, and it's when I was rating the industry on their diversity efforts. And this is. Pre 2020. So this is when nobody wanted to talk to me. This is when people didn't, you know, return emails, answer phone calls.

Martinique: And then of course, 2020 happened and everybody wants to knock down my door. Um, I say I'm a black travel enthusiast because I am, I am. Always happy to be able to share black stories and to amplify black owned businesses, but I do that around the world. And so I have two products that are, well, three products actually, one is called the ABC travel green book.

Martinique: And what it does is it lists is black owned businesses on six out of seven continents. And I have a children's book. That's called Cheyenne and the ABC travel green book. It's named after my niece and it's her teaching children about different black communities around the world, but through storytelling and through pictures and what their national day is and what they eat and how they celebrate and how they dance.

Martinique: And then in 2023, so last June, I released the ABC travel green book app. A lot of us know that The future of travel is digital, and that is the number one digital resource connecting travelers to the African diaspora globally. So unlike the book, we do definitely black owned businesses as well as black events and black communities, um, around the world.

Martinique: And we have over 170, 000 listings. So no matter where you go, uh, you can open up the app and see how you too can support black owned businesses. You're able to add reviews. You're able to upload photos and videos. You're able to give. ratings. You're able to mark something as close. Um, you're able to create your own black own itinerary for any destination you want to go to so that when you get there, you can just pull it up and do what you need to do.

Martinique: Um, we're excited to release our AI chatbot feature within the app this year. I mean this month, uh, specifically Memorial day weekend and I'm calling my AI chatbot cousin and you're able to ask your cousin anything you want to know about black, And one of the reasons that I did that was just because AI is very biased when it comes to me asking questions about the black history of a place or how to locate black owned businesses.

Martinique: And I realized that in order to help combat that, it means I would have to build it myself. And as you guys can imagine, that is a task training. I'm additionally the host of National Geographic's Black Travel Across America, which you can stream on Hulu and Disney plus as well as National Geographic.

Martinique: And then like she said, the executive director and one of the co founders of the Black Travel Alliance. As you guys can see, I do way too much. I'm sure you're just tired of hearing about everything I say. Cause I get tired of saying it. I'm exhausted. However, If you take away one thing, it's that I show up for my community in multiple ways, um, and I always want to make sure that I connect the dots to make sure that everybody feels represented in the tribal space.

Martinique: Yeah,

Christine: speak, self speaking about things. Um, but no, we're, we're, we're definitely here for you. Um, speaking of WITS, um, congratulations on recently being named creator of the year, um, at the WITS Summit in Salt Lake City. Um, one of the women in the room that really admired your work, um, I was just, I loved hearing you get up there to accept your award because I think a lot of times when we really admire someone and we really respect them, we, you know, put them on a pedestal or we feel like they're no longer approachable because they just have this energy, especially when someone's like you and you're like in this space where you're just doing the things you're so passionate about. Sometimes they feel untouchable, which then hinders the work that I think we're trying to do because we're actually trying to create community. Um, but one of the things that I loved most was watching you with your community and, and the way you engaged with everyone around you at throughout the whole event.

Christine: Like, Every time I saw you, I just was smiling because I was like, man, that woman just loves this so much and space with you throughout the event, wherever we crashed into each other was just like, it was just a highlight. So one, I wanted just share that because we really didn't get to talk because we were both going a mile. A million miles an hour in different directions. and then the other thing in your speech that you said that was so endearing was, you know, you're giving your big speech and you're like, I can't wait to hug everybody afterward, but I forgot my deodorant. So just, you're going to have to stand back or something like that. And I was like, Oh my gosh. Okay. I already loved her, but now she just goes on this list. of like being a real person, which I really, I really needed, I think in that moment, um, and it also just inspired me to immediately go after and get a hug, um, and invite you on the podcast. So I appreciate you and that energy that you. Bring when you are in different places, because I think it's really important to, I think, show up how you and create spaces in the way that you want them to be for other people. So, like you've said, like, you, you want to be someone who facilitates these conversations and so you need to be approachable so that people can come up to you and share their stories and, allow you to, um. understand what it is for them in their life that's important, or I don't, you know, all those things only happen when people feel like they can connect with you.

Martinique: absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's just showing, like you said, that it's real life, that you're human. And it's so crazy because right before the best, he's. I was pitching. I had a pitch competition. So I'm like, that's why I forgot my deodorant because I had to go to this pitch competition completely dressed. I was dressed for the best.

Martinique: So if you can imagine people are like, Oh my gosh, like you are so dressed for this. And I'm like, I'm not dressed for you guys. I have an award ceremony after this, but you just moving so fast. You're just rushing. Right. And yeah, I forgot my deodorant, but luckily the hotel was able to give me some. So by the time I got hugs from everybody, I smelled much better.

Christine: Yeah, it's great. And thank you for also mentioning that because, you know, that's another thing we didn't know when you're coming from one space to the next, just how much people are constantly juggling to make this level of Um, service to others happen really. And, um, one thing that I really wanted to ask you, because whenever I hear you speaking and speaking about the conviction you have for all of these things that you are creating, I kind of go back and I imagine Marty when she's like 10.

Christine: And I wonder, because I, when I know Christine when she was 10. She was this girl that marched into the library because she wanted to do a book report on the role of women in World War I. And my librarian was like, Oh God. And she's like, okay, let's see what we can do. And, you know, I remember going and looking at all of the books and like, you know, there's the big history section and then there's kind of the World War section and. The book's on World War I and she's like, I think this book has like two pages and this book probably has like a paragraph or two. And I just remember there like standing there like hands on my hips, just being like so incredibly mad that there was no stories of women in those books.

Martinique: right.

Christine: And like from that moment, it's kind of never stopped. so I just wonder, was there, you know, Were you that same Marty then? Or is this something that has emerged as you've become an adult?

Martinique: I have always been in situations where I'm learning how to do the right thing or how to stand up for something you believe in, even if you're standing alone. And I think even through elementary school, we used to have these oratorical contests, um, where we would talk about black history, Native American history, and I always won those content.

Martinique: So I started very early being able to speak out about injustices or human rights. Right. And then my church would facilitate programs where we will learn about history and how to rewrite history and tell the real story. So I think a lot of that comes from. Just, yeah, the way I grew up and me growing up in the Bay Area, me being from Oakland and all of the history here and how people always, you know, just are revolutionary.

Martinique: So I just think it's a little bit in my blood, but yeah, this has, this has always been me. I had no idea it was going to. Be me in the travel space. You know, when I initially started, um, I was in the fashion industry that that's what my actual degrees are in my masters, my undergrad, international certificates in it.

Martinique: But you could have never told me that this is what I'd be doing. I just always love to travel. So yeah, like I said, which was really that defining moment for me to be like, Oh, this is the path that I want to go down.

Christine: Yeah. Um, I love that you have that educational opportunity to really look at. At storytelling and how to, tell the story of injustice and of human rights because I think for me, this was something I constantly noticed, I didn't know how to speak up and I didn't know what stories, how to find those stories or how to tell the stories that I was really looking for.

Christine: And I grew up in a really small community in Montana, and I remember when I was in university and I was taking like a, I don't know, a sociology of ecology class or something. I don't know, something that they mish together that nobody knows what class they're even taking. And I remember sitting outside and the teacher was talking about, um, you know, all these human rights issues in the context of the environment. And one, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is blowing my mind. And like, Lighting something inside me that I don't even really understand, but these were the words I had been looking for all along. And then the thing that's kind of funny about the story, but he was, he was talking about kind of the intersection of feminism and ecology.

Christine: And he was talking, you know, he's saying, you know, people that stand up for the environment, people that stand up for indigenous communities. I grew up on a reservation in Montana, um, people that are standing up for all these different things. And he said, What people don't know about feminists is that what is what they're doing.

Christine: They're standing up for anyone

Martinique: Right?

Christine: is being silenced our world. I remember just sitting there, like thinking about all my cowboy uncles and being like, Oh my God, I'm a feminist. And in that moment, I was like, I could do this. People are doing this. People whose hearts. Break wide open, every time they hear one of those stories and then aren't silent, people are doing this. And I think that's maybe what I resonate most whenever I hear you speaking or sharing is that I really longed to be around the people that were doing this. And now in the space that I'm in and this time that we're in, it's really inspiring to see all the people wanted their voices heard to be heard. Standing up

Martinique: Right.

Christine: um, yeah, that was this huge thing. I didn't even expect to say, but here we are just sharing with you

Martinique: I love it. I love it. I love it. That works. That works. Yeah,

Christine: didn't come here to hear from me. Um, but I wanted to talk to you. Um, had first, um, heard about Black Travel Alliance in 2020. Um, I had Tomiko Harvey on the podcast that was a great conversation. And in it, we were talking about, The importance of multicultural travelers, seeing themselves reflected in marketing and in materials.

Christine: And she did this kind of exercise, if you will, with me, where she's like, Christine, just walk through a trade show and start picking up brochures and look at them. So like. You know, I've done that 5 million times. So I'm looking at all these brochures and she's like, what are you seeing? And I'm like, well, I'm seeing like this young couple and this burly middle aged man.

Christine: And I'm seeing these fit travelers and I'm seeing, maybe I saw a woman. she's like, what are you not seeing? I was like, Oh, Tomiko, I was like, yes, I hear you. Like I had never, I had never had someone just say something like that, that just hit me. Um, and so, you know, what we're not seeing is black travelers, multicultural travelers, we're not saying.

Christine: Elder, older women travelers. We're not seeing solo women travelers. Um, I would say there has been a huge shift in marketing. Um, I'm sure that you would agree in, in the past few years, but I want to talk to you about why is seeing yourself so important and why are we still falling short when it comes to this?

Martinique: so it's important for multiple reasons, but the main one is because it shows that I'm thought of. It shows up that you are intentionally also marketing to me by the people who you use that look like me. So it's showing that you're, that I'm welcome into your destination. It's showing that you're prepared to welcome me and have me in your destination.

Martinique: It's showing that. You are also making a statement to anybody who is either from your destination or associated with your destination that you do welcome people like me. So, you know, it's one of those things. And I don't think people realize like how much travelers use social media, but we're not, we're not typing things into Google anymore.

Martinique: We're going straight to take talk or Instagram and putting it in there and seeing what pops up. Right. So if we're going to your page as the first indicator of, okay, this is where I want to go. What do I want to do? I don't see myself reflected anywhere. I'm not going to go because I'm also like, am I safe here?

Martinique: Right. Or how does your community react to black people coming here? Or how do your business owners react to serving black people? Like all of those questions have to go through our heads because of all of the injustices that we actually face. So yes, seeing ourselves in your spas, you know, on your webpage, Um, you reposting things from other people who look like us that have come to your destination, like all of those things make a huge difference.

Martinique: And you know, I'm a data person. So we always say, you know, 70 percent of black travelers are more likely to travel to destinations or spend money with brands where they see themselves reflected. Another thing we also look for is, Are you showing your staff who look like us? And I'm not just talking about the cleaners.

Martinique: I'm talking about the SVP of marketing. I'm talking about, you know, your PR person. I'm talking about your sales person. Like, are you also amplifying them? Right. Because then it shows also that you really are supportive. So we're definitely always looking. We're definitely always figuring out also like, you know, How you support those people who look like us in your destination.

Martinique: A lot of times that shows up on your social media, right? It's like, if you're talking about restaurant week happening, how many black owned restaurants did you feature in that post? Did you feature any of them? Right. Or if you're talking about events that are happening, are you also talking about the black events that are happening?

Martinique: That's something that we never see. You know, you can, you can come to California and the Bay Area and people are going to talk about Oktoberfest and whatever else that happens, but it's like, but did you talk about black vines, which is the largest, like black owned vine event right now on the West coast.

Martinique: So it's one of those things where it's like, you're, it's not just only seeing me physically, right. Like seeing a person, but it's. How you're supporting the black owned businesses in the space and how you're showing them, how you're supporting the black events in the space and you're showing them how you show the communities, right?

Martinique: We, we recently, I was recently filming in Jacksonville and I love visit Jacksonville, one of the greatest, greatest, greatest, uh, tourism boards that I can work with, but I was there to film some areas that they don't cover. And it's not necessarily at their fault because they don't know what they don't know, but I also use it as an opportunity to say, this is how you connect with.

Martinique: Culture through your social media or through your publication, you know, through both traditional and non traditional marketing. And they're like, yeah, we never been down to such and such. And I'm like, yeah, so how would other people know if you are also not showing it? So there's always the opportunity to really step up and Show just diversity in plenty of ways because it's not just physically seeing a person but it is supporting a business It is supporting an event, you know, it is supporting your staff So yeah, I would if any brands are listening Those are things I would say to consider because those are things that we also look for

Christine: Yeah. Um, on your website and people always love when I'm like, Great. You're going to read something on my website right now, but I want to read something from your website because when I was, um, preparing for this conversation, it was something that really resonated about press trips. And because you just mentioned that, I feel like it's a great time to, to talk about it. But it says on your website, in efforts to tell these stories that are left untold, I absolutely love visiting places and connecting with minority communities that are normally not reflected in effort to tell those stories. I just read it again. I am not your normal content creator. I strive to introduce and influence travelers to go beyond the surface and connect with inclusive communities, no matter the city, uh, country or continent, and want to know the true essence of a destination. Um, and for me, I just thought, wow, that is so incredible just to just, like, see that say it because we know that that's not what people are necessarily looking for when they're reaching out to content creators, when they're looking to do brand partnerships. Um, but I would love to hear from you. are brands receiving that?

Christine: Do they, do you find them really attracted to that messaging? Do you find them like put off by that messaging? What does that, how does that start to form relationships?

Martinique: Yeah, um, I don't know who's put off by it because they haven't offered me to come right?

Christine: Okay. I think, let's see.

Martinique: There we go. So I, um, don't know necessarily who's put off by it, but I know that when I go to events like IMM that happens every January in New York, or even Women in Travel Summit, The brands who talked to me already know what they're getting. So they know I am seeking out their destination to tell those untold stories.

Martinique: And I would say they do a fantastic job because they also realize why those stories need to be told. So for example, I recently did a, a campaign with Augusta and, um, I love the campaign because they were figuring out a way to tell a different story for the Masters tournament. And so when people think about Augusta, that's the first thing they think about the Augusta National Tournament, AKA the Masters.

Martinique: But the story that they wanted me to tell was the story of the black caddies and the black caddies were so significant for years because of the simple fact that if it was not for them, the men who put on the green jackets. wouldn't be able to put on the green jackets because they knew how to read what they called the greens or the golf course because it was their city.

Martinique: It was their golf course. So they could tell you where to head it. They could tell you what to do when it was raining. They knew all of the hills and the crevices to make sure that your pars were actually on par. Right. And so they have never really gotten the recognition they deserve. And it's like, even if they don't get a green jacket, give them a green sweater, right.

Martinique: Or acknowledge the part that they played And making somebody else great. And so when they initially came to me with the idea, I loved it because I was like, this is exactly what I say I want to do. And so I think a lot of brands are receptive. And I think that now as the content creation space, um, expands, there are a lot more.

Martinique: Creators who are niched creators. And so I am very niche now where I'm like focusing on black on everything, because anything that I, anything I go to anything I talk about, it's also part of the app now. Right? So the story goes far beyond what you see on social media. It's now at your fingertips of the app.

Martinique: You can now see it visually on YouTube. There's some type of written content that's evergreen. So it's, It's all encompassing, but I'm grateful for all of the brands that I've worked with because they've said, yes, we want this story and we want it from your lens. And so even, um, explore cognac. I, I did cognac France in January and I was there doing tapings like everybody else.

Martinique: But now from a Black perspective and trying to uncover if there's any Black history in Cognac or also trying to amplify the Black owned businesses, which there's only three, but now you know that about the three, because nobody was talking about them before or saying what it feels like to be a Black person in the South of France, right?

Martinique: We're not necessarily talking about Paris where there's tons of Black people, but a place where there's There's not that many black people, but who literally survives because of how much African Americans buy their products. So again, like a different story, a different lens, one that is not your traditional, Oh, here I was at house of Remy Martin and doing, you know, at the Chateau of whoever and drinking the cognac is just from a different lens and from a lens that they deem is important.

Martinique: So, you know, I, I have been really, really grateful for the brands who have wanted to work with me and who have showed up in numerous ways.

Christine: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Um, I would, I'd love to also hear from you about your series, Black Travel Across America, um, with National Geographic. And I know they specifically looked for you because of, The stories you were already telling and I just would love to have you share a little bit about what that was like that kind of moment they reached out and then to share about the series and why it was such an important project is such important project to you.

Martinique: Yeah. I think that whole, the whole partnership in general is super significant into content creators being who they post to be. So being so secure in yourself, That no matter if Instagram goes down tomorrow, no matter how many likes you get, no matter how many followers you have, you're so secure in yourself that you will still post the content because somebody, anybody, everybody is going to feel what you're talking about.

Martinique: Right? And that's the really hard part right now about content creation. People go off of trends versus going off of what really speaks to them. And so, You know, I post things not to be popular, but to give education. And so, you know, I've been posting this type of content for years and National Geographic literally found me from hashtagging on Instagram.

Martinique: And for me, that's really, really big because for one, it goes to show you that. They want authenticity, right? Not the people who are just so good on camera. No, they want the person who was, yes, good on camera, but who also had a serious passion for what they needed to get across. And so even in our first meeting, when they were asking me, um, you know, about certain people.

Martinique: a lot of the people who I was suggesting, they already have written down. So it was like, okay, there's alignment there. Um, but yeah, it was just such a, a powerful moment because for one, when they sent me the email, I thought it was fake. I remember we were, we were on a yacht in the middle of Turkey as all places to meet those with me on that, on that trip.

Martinique: And I remember showing them the email and saying, People are really playing games on my phone and then they're like, no, like it's actually, they're like, look at her email. And I was like, holy crap. And so, yeah, from the moment we spoke, um, it was just like perfect alignment. And I came to National Geographic as myself, and I was not willing to compromise.

Martinique: And I say that because a lot of people don't realize in TV, they try to make you compromise. And so I told them, if you want me as your host, I can only wear black designer clothing, not, not designer clothing, but black, black clothing that was designed by a black seamstress or a black designer. Um, I told them I will only accept black makeup artists.

Martinique: I told them I only want to eat at black owned restaurants, whether we're filming or not. And I asked them, can you handle those requests? And they said, yes, with no problems. So it's one of those things, again, if you show up as who you are, people are okay with that. And to be able to say like, this is what I want because this is what best fits me.

Martinique: So the reason why they were looking for me or chose me is because Black Travel Across America takes the original Negro Motorist Green book, which was a book between that was created between 1936 and 1966 from from Victor and Alma Green. To be able to keep African Americans safe when driving up and down route 66.

Martinique: So now we're talking about the great migration. We're talking about families for the first time have cars to be able to get from Tennessee to California, but we're also talking about things like sundown towns or police brutality. And if you don't know what a sundown town is, it's a place that black people could not be after the sun sets because they could literally lose their life.

Martinique: But if you're driving from Tennessee to California, you got to stop somewhere. Or do you? Yeah. And the answer was no. A lot of Black people could not stop. So they had to fill up during the day and drive through the night. But there were areas and places that were Black owned who would be able to take them in, who would be able to feed them, service stations that were okay with Black people.

Martinique: So this resource was extremely important for people staying alive who were also travelers themselves. So they were taking the book and they were exploring neighborhoods where there was a significant amount of listings in the book. And because I created the new book that did the same thing, but on a global level, now they were like, you are literally keeping the legacy alive.

Martinique: So we went to a location. We talked about what used to happen there. We talked about what was currently happening there and we talked about the future of this place. So for example, my favorite story to talk about, um, this is how I know we were aligned, was the Denver story. And in Denver, there is a neighborhood called, called Five Points District.

Martinique: And when they initially brought this to me, I started crying because Two years earlier, I had just learned about my grandfather's uncle, whose name is Benny Huber Hooper, who was basically the unofficial mayor of the five points. neighborhood. So he was a serial entrepreneur. His his businesses were listed in the original green books.

Martinique: He had a theater, um, a corner store, a hotel. And as people like Ella Fitzgerald at Count Basie, as all of these black musicians on what we call the children circuit were coming through Denver, they would stay at his properties. They would play in his nightclubs, right? So I just learned about him. a few years prior, and they had just built a building called the Hooper after him.

Martinique: So when we show up to this location, because of the old family pictures that I have, there is, um, actual pictures that have been printed into the walls, or basically like it's an overlay of the walls. The first picture I saw was him. Now, mind you, I've never seen this man before because he died before I was born, but because of the baby picture that I have of him and because that I know what my grandfather looks like and my grandfather, my great grandfather are, are very similar in what they look like.

Martinique: And then also all of his siblings, my great grandfather's siblings. I said, that's my uncle right there. I was able to pull up the picture and prove that that was him. And so if you can imagine, they got all of that on camera. And this was like an actual authentic moment that just happened to happen.

Martinique: During this time that I had no idea was going to happen because I'd never been to Five Points before, right? And literally his face is right there on the place that he used to own. So being able to walk up and down that corridor, knowing that my family history was significant to the success of this black owned neighborhood, it was just like, wow, for me.

Martinique: And so things like that kept happening while we were filming. Um, but just being able to, again, connect the dots. Being able to amplify stories. We also chose Kansas City because that was a place that I asked him to go to because I had went there some years earlier and saying, I really want you to amplify these black owned businesses because these entrepreneurs work hard and they are the reason that our legacy is being able to be continued in this space and we were able to do that too.

Martinique: So it's like. Again, like I was saying, like, I know I was put on this earth to share Black stories, and National Geographic allowed me to do that. Um, and it's very different from them. It's very off brand for them. And so, part of it, I had a little bit of anxiety, because I didn't know how people were responding.

Martinique: You're gonna always get those trolls who are like, I thought this was nature and animals, what is she doing here? But, the fact that they gave me a platform, A black girl from Oakland with dreadlocks. You know what I mean? And a keen sense of fashion, almost so extra with long nails that are every single design in the book.

Martinique: It was like a moment for the community where we all won. So, you know, it just, it was a life changing moment. Like I always say, if I started at Nat Geo, I can't imagine the rest of the things that will come down the pipeline. Cause I can only go up from there. But yeah, Nat Geo really blessed me with the opportunity to be able to work with them.

Christine: Yeah. Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for that story and, um, for sharing all of the the moments that were really special within that too. And I think, you know, kind of going back to this idea of who we are. And like you just said, you know, this, this is what you're here to do. As you were sharing the story about your uncle, I was thinking like, this is just the universe saying like, yes, you are on the right path. And it sounded like there were so many of those moments that just kind of allowed you to feel that that's, that's, you know, True that you couldn't really trust that not only does this feel like the right thing to you for you to be doing like it is what you were meant to do.

Martinique: Yeah.

Christine: Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think many of us get to have that as that sense of just, um, purpose that feels so true that we, we just know we can stand on it, like, no matter what we can stand on it.

Christine: And so I appreciate that. Um, you mentioned, um, both the ABC travel green book and the app. But I wanted to just talk to you a little bit more about that, um, where it came from and how, you know, how you envision it growing in the future. I know when you started with the book, you probably didn't imagine the app, but maybe you did.

Christine: And if you can now see a purpose greater than what it is right now.

Martinique: Yeah. Um, so like I explained to you what the original green book was and what kept happening to me, I call myself a hyper traveler. It's like a term that we coined in 2020. It just means like a person who's always on the go. And I kept having these moments where I was going to very popular cities That I knew nothing about a black community being there, but got exposed to the black community in there and thought to myself, if I didn't know, and I consider myself a hyper traveler, I can imagine how many other people come through here and they don't know.

Martinique: So places like London, places like Paris, places like Amsterdam, where I'm like, they will tell you there's no black history here, but I can clearly see, you know, there is. And I will never forget. It was 2016, October 2016. And, um, I was sitting at my desk at the worst company I've ever worked for in my life.

Martinique: And I was like, I am leaving. And they're like, where are you going? And I'm like, Paris. And they're like, for what? I was like, for the weekend. And at the time I had already started working for a company called black travel journey. And we had connected with some, Um, some Parisian, a Parisian black owned like community, travel community called Black Voyagers.

Martinique: I remember I let them know like, hey, I'm coming to Paris for Halloween. It's very random. It's very spur of the moment, but can you show me around? And I had been to Paris before because I studied abroad in London. And so the Paris that they showed me. was not the Paris I was exposed to. And I just couldn't believe it.

Martinique: There were black people everywhere. And of course there are, because black people are literally everywhere, but nobody is telling that narrative. Right. And so from that moment on, I knew I said, I am going to Show the world that black people are everywhere because we are. And so the idea from the book came because after Paris happened, after London happened, after Amsterdam happened, I said I have to be able to get this information to people quickly.

Martinique: And so I started the book in 2018, but once COVID happened, And all of the unfortunate deaths happened of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery. I was like, now is the time to release the book. And it did. Crazy numbers. I sold like over 10, 000 copies in like the first two months. It was like number one everywhere, but people wanted to support.

Martinique: And people also wanted to know part of it was we all had cabin fever. So we were sitting inside the house. Right. So people like, when I do travel, I'm now going to Columbia and I'm going to find the black people in Cartan. I'm going to go to Ecuador and I'm going to find the black people in Chota and Esmeralda and Cuenca.

Martinique: You know what I mean? Like, it was like, cause now I know that they're there. And so the book did so well, but again, you started realizing, like, people don't want to travel with a book in their hand. Everything is mobile phones now. And so I said, okay, let me do an app. And I really struggled because I have no tech background.

Martinique: Right. So I'm like, how am I going to build this app? Who do I get to build it? I don't have the money that it takes to build an app, but I'm like, just start. Right. And I let the book sales fund the app. And so the app took. As you guys see, 2020 to 2023, about three years to create. I went through two different, three different developers.

Martinique: I lost a lot of money, but this version of the app that's out now, I'm just so proud of it. Part of the reason is because it serves people in over 20 countries. We just hit 10, 000 downloads. You know, we, we're not even a year yet, a year old yet. And we've worked with eight destinations who promote inside of the app.

Martinique: They're black owned itineraries. You know, um, I love that you can recommend a business because people are recommending black owned businesses that have not been in the app, you know? So it's like, it's user generated content also, and people are active in it. And so, yeah, the app was just really like an extra love letter to the travel industry that I am here.

Martinique: I'm here to share black stories and that nothing is going to stop me from doing that. And so I used to pitch all the time, didn't get through. I used to apply for grants all the time, didn't get through. And then magically last year, I just started getting approved for tons of grants. I started winning pitch competitions this year.

Martinique: I'm in accelerators and I'm currently trying to raise 3 million in this first seed round. And I have angel investors. I have venture capitalists. And I'm really learning this game. And so now I'm obsessed with tech. Meanwhile, you know, three years ago, I knew nothing about it. And part of the reason also that I struggled is because there wasn't anybody who looks like me who I could ask.

Martinique: I'm like, there is no like. Black person right now and travel technology that can really help me. I am, I've been exposed to a community of new people who can help guide me and lead me across the way. So I have an advantage over other people because I really come from the travel space. So it's not just me saying, Oh, here's a travel app.

Martinique: It's like, no, I actually know like 90 percent of these businesses that I talk about in the app, cause I've been there or I know the owners and to be able to know that. The app keeps people in business literally that the book kept so many entrepreneurs in business Because they weren't getting any business because of covid and as soon as covid stopped in certain areas People were able to go and they were patronizing their businesses All of those things let me know that i'm doing the right thing and I tell people all the time Everything I do has nothing to do with me.

Martinique: It's literally for the community. It's literally to amplify other people. It's literally to be the mouthpiece for somebody else, right? Who doesn't have the same access, the same resources, or the same, like, um, notariety in the travel space. I can literally, which I did this morning, I emailed 70 destinations about Black Travel Alliance and Black Travel Summit.

Martinique: And I can get 70 responses. People saying, yes, we will support you. What else do you need us to do? And so I'm just so grateful that I do have that positioning because anytime I need something with the app or anytime the app needs to grow, I always have supporters right there. Trip advisor. I tell you all the time, they are one of my main supporters where they're like, If you need somebody to test the app, let us know.

Martinique: Can you imagine? Engineers from TripAdvisor, who work for TripAdvisor, like, Nah, let's test it, like, we got you. And they're like, we're not here so that we can sell you ideas. We're here to make sure that you're the best that you can be with the knowledge and with the resources in your network that you have.

Martinique: And so, I love, Things like that, where it's just, I've always gained so much support from the community. So yeah, the ABC travel green book can find it on Amazon. You find it at Barnes and Nobles, ABC travel green book app. It is for everybody. It's not only for black travelers, it's geared towards black travelers because we're the ones seeking out other black faces when we go to places, but it is for anybody and everybody who says that they are ally, you know, in the black travel space.

Martinique: Um, So, yeah, I'm just super proud of both things. Um, the book will not have more additions just because the app is out and it takes up so much of my time. Um, but the app only continued to get better and better as I get more investments as I'm able to bring people in, but I'm grateful, you know, for where it is now, because this is how you make money in your sleep, you know, and what I tell.

Martinique: Travel content creators all the time or travel for Norris all the time. You need a full ecosystem of how you're making money, right? So I can make money from three different products. I can also make money from consulting. I can also make money from campaigns. I can also make money for speaking. So it's like I have six to seven ways that I can make money within the travel space, but those products.

Martinique: Are definitely things that take no effort because once it's done, it's done now. Granted, the app will always need to be updated and everything will be entered, but they are things that you can literally gain money in your sleep from. So I'm just grateful. I'm grateful for everybody's support, um, who have supported everything.

Martinique: It's so funny. Sorry, quick story. But in January at this same place, I keep talking about IMM, International Media Marketplace. I was meeting with, um, Visit Pleasant Hill and the representative said, I bought a hundred of your books. I said what she said. Yes for all my colleagues in the industry and stuff like that i'm, just like You know what I mean?

Martinique: It's like, you don't know who's supporting you, but so many people have showed up for me and I'm, I'm forever grateful for that.

Christine: Hmm. Um, I just want to sit with that for a moment. That's so incredible. And I'm so glad that you've received that, that love and that gratitude and that support. I think, I think that one of the hardest things when. You are trying to be the voice. And when you are putting yourself out there is to feel like you're standing there alone sometimes. Um, and to know that other people are seeing what you're doing and supporting you, whether you know it or not. I can imagine that that's tremendously helpful and reignites your passion and your fire to be able to keep going because you never know who you're touching. And I think that's one of the most. things. One of the other things that you had on your website is, you know, speaking on using your platform for good. And I think, you know, this kind of ties into that is you have this space that you can really make an impact. so many of us have a platform, whether it's big or small and thinking about what we're saying is really important. Um, but then just noting that someone's on the other side of that and you don't know who it is. Like you will, there's probably millions of people you've touched that you'll never know that you've been a part of their story because you are in the space that you're in and the way that you're in. And I just think it's really powerful. be aware of that.

Martinique: Thank you.

Christine: Um, well, let's

Martinique: There we go.

Christine: it back? Yep.

Martinique: Yeah.

Christine: Um,

Martinique: about that.

Christine: um, Um, well, thank you so much, Marty. I feel like I had a million things that I wanted to talk to you. You're one of those people that I put have just got on and hit record and just said, speak for 60 minutes and everything will be like, Just what I wanted to hear. Um, but I'm so, so grateful to have finally had this conversation with you. I've had you on my list since 2020. Um, so here we are finally having the conversation, um, before we end, I have just a few fun, um, rapid fire questions to round out our conversation. So we'll jump into those. the first one is what are you reading right now?

Martinique: Ooh. Um, I'm reading get good with money by Tiffany, the budget needs to collect it and, um, It's because I just told you guys, you know, I'm trying to raise a 3 million round right now for the app. And it's one of those things, like if you ask for the money, you need to know how to manage it. Uh, so that is definitely one thing.

Martinique: And then your first million by Arlen Hamilton. Um, so, but I'm listening to that one. So yeah, I'm, I'm more of an audible girl than I am a, Actual book girl, but always, I'm always reading levers, um, which is a book for entrepreneurs trying to grow and scale their business. So yeah, all of my things are like self help, uh, you know, and any like tech and entrepreneur stuff.

Christine: Yeah. Well, I love that because mean, it's one speaks so much to who you are, but to how much you're supporting who you want to become. And I think for people listening like this is how it happens is you just keep accumulating knowledge and you keep accumulating skills and tools to push yourself to the next level.

Christine: So it's really important. what is always in your suitcase when you travel.

Martinique: So there's this device that You put your phone in and then that you clamp to the back of an airplane seat so that you can watch So that you can watch your phone, uh at eye level i'm gonna always have that I always have my portable microphone because I am always Doing some type of voiceover. I always have a ring light.

Martinique: Um, and now I'm going to always have deodorant so that I don't go through the same things. And granted, I always have deodorant in the suitcase, but we're talking travel size and probably in my purse. So yeah.

Christine: I love it so much. Um, to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where is some place that you would still love to sojourn?

Martinique: So I recently just moved back from London and, um, I always tell people that is my second home and I just, I love it so much despite the gray skies, you know, it just. It's magical for me. And so I probably will move back there at some point in time in my life. Um, another place I would love to just go and relax for, relax in for a while is, um, Puerto Viejo, Costa Rica, which is the Caribbean coast where you can find a lot of the black community, but the surroundings, they're just unreal.

Martinique: And it's just serenity and it's a small beach town. Um, but. You can walk and, you know, get a starfruit off of the tree and just eat it. I mean, it just, everything is, is, is better there. Um, and so, yeah, that's another place where I would

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. Uh, what is something you eat that immediately connects you to a place that you've been?

Martinique: sojourn.

Martinique: Something that even, I mean, it connects me to a place. I would say any type of Swiss chocolate, cause it's different, you know, uh, Swiss chocolate is, is definitely on a different level. Um, but if I have some type of like bride. Rice and beans. And I know you guys are like fried rice and beans, but yeah, fried rice and beans, Afro Peruvians have a dish called taco taco, and that's exactly what it is.

Martinique: So anytime somebody can get like something like that, that is close enough to that. Um, it just takes me back there and it is so good. So, so good.

Christine: Yeah. I love Peruvian food. That is a place that I think is gaining recognition, but has been typically underestimated for the quality of food that you can get there.

Martinique: Yeah.

Christine: Who was a person that inspired and encouraged you to set out to travel the world?

Martinique: Uh, always my, my grandma, Ruby and my mother. And I tell everybody I was born with a travel gene, but my grandmother was an immigrant from Panama. And so this is. I don't think people realize when you grow up with an immigrant family, you don't realize that you're different. And it's like, yes, I grew up with this lady speaking Spanish every day and I didn't think anything of it.

Martinique: You know what I mean? Not realizing how much of a gem it was because in California, the Spanish speakers who you see don't look like me, you know? And so I'm not from the East coast, like New York, where you're going to get your Afro Costa Ricans, your Afro Cubans, you know, your Afro Panamanians, like, Where they're always speaking Spanish when California had this gym of a grandmother, but because she was from Panama meant that she was always traveling back or that she was going to other places and she wasn't afraid to go different places.

Martinique: So she is like one of the first people I really saw do international trips, but my mother also has always been a traveler and she has always encouraged us to go out and, you know, Every year, every year, three or four times a year, we're on a trip as young kids. You know, I learned how to read a map because my parents would get in the car and drive three days from Oakland, California to Ohio or drive two days from Oakland, California to Texas or Louisiana.

Martinique: So, you know, they really instilled it in us. Um, and they never told us, no, we couldn't go. They weren't scared for us to have our passports. So yeah, definitely my grandmother and my mom.

Christine: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?

Martinique: That is a good question.

Martinique: Um, I would have loved to fly or be on a motorcycle with the Bessies. So there are two different Bessies. Everybody knows Bessie Coleman, who was an African American pilot, um, who went and got her, who the Bessies are named after, who went and got her, um, Her pilot licensing in France, but there's also another Bessie and I don't know why her last name is escaping me right now.

Martinique: But there's also another Bessie who was a motorcyclist and one of the first African American females. She was actually Haitian, but like to be on a motorcycle back in the 50s and 60s. So if I can be in a plane with one Bessie and on the back of a motorcycle with the other one, I would love that.

Christine: Yeah, that sounds like your next travel series, actually. So we'll throw that out to the universe while we're here. Um, the last question, Soul of Travel is for celebrating women in this industry. Who is one woman you admire and would love to recognize in this space?

Martinique: Oh my gosh. Beth Santos of the Women in Travel Summer of Wonderful. Um, you know, the other day she put up a post about something that she's going through internally. And I'm thinking, and you still are able to create this space for so many women with three young children, and you're absolutely smashing it.

Martinique: And I'm just like. You are the true definition of a wonder woman. Like you're wonderful. You're amazing. You have your own podcast. You have your own community. You just came out with a book. You have your, your, um, your, your side business cafe, your mother, every day of the week, I'm just like, and she's my, we're literally the same age and I'm like, Beth, how are you doing this?

Martinique: And for essentially four other people, your three kids and your husband, but. And I just think she's so brave. Um, and I just love the way she's transparent and she shows up for solo woman or traveler. Like she just, she's so bomb. And so Beth kudos to you. Um, we love you and we're so proud of everything that you're doing.

Christine: Thank you so much for sharing. Um, I feel like I'm telling her that all the time, but I think it's good for her to hear from so many people because when you're in that space, I have three kids are bigger now. So it's not as tedious and as difficult as the moment that she's in right now. And then with everything else that she's doing.

Christine: And I think most importantly, like you said, the way she shows up and shares it again, Allowing other people to just. see that, you know, can still accomplish your goals no matter you're surrounded by, what you're going through, that you can be like, just brave and crash down all the expectations around you.

Christine: You know, I just watch her with that same admiration that you just mentioned. So thank you for, for sharing. And, um, again, just thank you for being here. Um, I hope people, if you're new to them, that they begin following you and watch your documentary and just look for great things from you in the future.

Christine: Cause like you said, I can only imagine. you know, where, where you're headed. And I know it's, it's up for sure with many other people beside you.

Martinique: very much. And thank you so much for having me on here.

Christine: You're welcome. Thank you.