Soulful Mashup: Traveling with Kids

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a special summer mashup of guests who discuss inspiring the next generation through travel. Traveling with children is a topic near and dear to our hearts at Soul of Travel, and we are excited to share these clips with you!

Guests highlighted include:

· Kat Medina

· Lola Akinmade

· Catherine Gallagher

· Retha Charette

· Samantha Runkel

· Ellenore Angelidis

Join Christine for this special soulful mashup episode. Available Wednesday.

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Soul of Travel Podcast is nominated for a Women in Podcasting Award in the Travel Category! You can vote for Soul of Travel as your favorite travel podcast from August 1 through October 1.

https://womeninpodcasting.net/soul-of-travel-podcast-womens-wisdom-mindful-travel/

To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

LOVE these soulful conversations? We rely on listener support to produce our podcast! Make a difference by making a donation to Lotus Sojourns on PayPal.  

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Looking for ways to be a part of the Lotus Sojourns community? Learn more here!

Find Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community for like-hearted women. Find solo travel trips for women over 50 on JourneyWoman.

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Kat Medina, Lola Akinmade, Catherine Gallagher, Retha Charette, Samantha Runkel, Ellenore Angelidis (Guests). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.

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• 17:39 [Ad] Untethered & Wanderwise: Female Travel Over 45
• 18:05 (Cont.) Soulful Mashup: Traveling with Kids

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel, Women's Wisdom and Mindful Travel. I'm your host, Christine Winerunner Eyrick. Each week, you'll hear me having soulful conversations with women who are tourism professionals, trailblazers, and community leaders around the world. They share their personal and professional journeys to inspire you, and their stories teach you how to become a more conscious traveler, live life aligned with your values, and create a positive impact.

Christine: We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel. This August on Soul of Travel podcast, we are sharing a few soulful mashup episodes on different topics that will feature clips from past guests. Our guests will be sharing about family travel and traveling with kids.

Christine: the impact that early travel experiences had on their lives and careers, and how Soul of Travel guests are supporting the UN's Sustainable Development Goals with their work. It is always fun to look back at some of the common threads shared by our guests, and this is a unique opportunity to bring them together for you in a way that we hope adds even more value.

Christine: Each of these topics touches on the importance of travel in our lives, and how travel connects us to the world and shapes us into global citizens, and I'm especially excited to share about the many ways our guests work to support the UN STGs. I'll be sharing an article about that this month too, so make sure you're on our email list.

Christine: Just visit our website at www. souloftravelpodcast. com and sign up there. I'd also like to share that Soul of Travel podcast is nominated for a women in podcasting award in the travel category and you can vote for Soul of Travel as your favorite travel podcast from August 1st to October 1st. You can find the link at womeninpodcasting.

Christine: net backslash soul dash of dash travel dash podcast dash women's dash wisdom dash mindful dash travel that's a lot of dashes So if you can't remember it, I will have the link in the show notes. I will also be announcing a campaign soon to support the podcast and help us bring you these important conversations and continue to amplify the voices of women around the world in the tourism industry.

Christine: This is another great reason to be on our email list. It will be hosted on the amazing platform. I fund women. com. We are also seeking sponsors and have space for advertisers for season six. Just send me an email to connect at lotussojourns. com for more information. Okay, I think that's enough housekeeping.

Christine: It's time to get to our summer mashup episode. Here we go.

Christine: This SOFL mashup features guests talking about traveling with kids. I have often shared about my travels with my daughters, and it is one of my most treasured experiences. This time last year, we spent four months traveling together, and watching my daughters grow through the experience solidifies my belief that travel is critical for our understanding of the world around us.

Christine: And as children, international travel shows them how big the world really is while also helping them to see similarities between people in the places we travel. It brings their history lessons to life, lets them put their Duolingo lessons into practice. They grow more confident and independent. And I think these same things can happen in domestic travel too.

Christine: So if international travel isn't a possibility for you, don't think you can't offer your children a similar value. Today's guest will tell you how. Our first outtake comes from Kat Medina, who originally joined us in episode 166 and was recently featured in our summer reading episode as well, talking about her book, The Joys of Jet Leg.

Christine: In this outtake from her episode, Kat shares about the magic and awe we can tap into when traveling, especially with our kids, and how we can learn from them and bring some of this into our everyday lives.

Kat: When I'm at home, it's like I have routines and things are comfortable and easy and generally go smoothly as long as I stick with those habits, whether they're intentional or not. Um, and when I'm abroad, it's kind of like I choose these trips. For the purpose of getting outside of my comfort zone because it breaks free from that autopilot.

Kat: It forces you to look around and notice things and Acknowledge when you're doing things intentionally or not. And so one of the things that I try to do is put myself in these situations that are outside of my comfort zone. And I, I'm an introverted person. You know, when I was just for most of my life, I've been incredibly shy.

Kat: And that seemed to dissolve when I was in another country. And I was like, why? Okay. It feels like a total mind freeze when I'm at home in a situation, uh, uh, where shyness kicks in, but abroad, it's like that fog clears and I can actually think and behave and talk in the way that I want. So what's the difference?

Kat: And, um, it's, you know, a lot to do with curiosity and also adopting this belief. That I realized when I traveled and now I can do this at home is seeing that, you know, what life is happening for me, not to me, and having that as this security blanket, I can lean into the discomfort of daily life more and pursue these situations where I might have originally shied away from them because I didn't want to, you know, come across as, I don't know, awkward or whatever.

Kat: Uh, and instead be like, even if I am awkward, like it's happening, like this is happening for me, all of these things are happening for me, whether or not that's true, if I really lean into it and believe it, then I can start to see, you know, confirmation bias, like things that support that belief. Um, so, yeah, leaning into these uncomfortable.

Kat: Situations to break free from the autopilot so that we can see it with fresh eyes and it's doing things like you suggested breaking away from routine. And, you know, a lot of people think that creating a habit is difficult, but it's actually so easy. And so much of our days is made up of unintentional habits.

Kat: It's the intentional ones that can be challenging and kind of looking, going through your day and becoming aware of how many things you do just because. You've been doing them, um, on repeat and, uh, one of the things that I noticed is that if I get too honed in on this like really efficient way of going through my day, then it's time for me to take a little pause and just look around me with.

Kat: My five senses activated and that kind of forces me into the present moment. And it's, it could be as simple as like, Oh, what do I feel right now? What am I seeing right now? What am I smelling right now? And it, it interrupts, um, the autopilot. And another thing that you hinted at earlier at the start of the conversation that's really been helping me to do this is I know it's cliche, but it's having kids because they are seeing the world around them with fresh eyes.

Kat: And so they're acting as little reminders, like. Oh yeah, that is crazy. Like, look at how, look at how the ice formed at the base of our driveway. Instead of being like, Oh, it's slippery. Like it formed this weird icy moat and I can't get rid of it from snow blowing or whatever. It's like, wow, look at how the crystals are forming like that.

Kat: And it's slippery. This is crazy, you know, and trying to tap into that. And that's, that's an ongoing practice, you know, I, I wrote this book as a reminder to me because. I, you know, life is set up in a way that it's not conducive to going through daily life with a traveler's mindset. So what I wrote, I remind myself of, and luckily having kids is also acting as a reminder for that for me.

Christine: Yeah. And I had that. I wanted to talk to you about that in particular, because I know that is also something for me that really helps me to see the magic. Like kids are great at seeing the magic sometimes. For me, it's like annoyingly so because they're so busy finding the magic that you can't get from point A to point B, but it's like, it's incredible.

Christine: Even when, um, I was traveling with my daughters this summer for the whole summer and they would just see, especially my youngest, but she would just see everything. Like, I just, I'm like, I don't even, I'm, my mind is boggled by the amount of things you must be seeing. In every moment. And I'm sure you're not telling me all of them, although you are telling me a lot of them, but like, they just, she's like, isn't it amazing how many rocks are shaped like hearts?

Christine: And I actually noticed that that paint spill is also shaped like a heart. That's so curious. What does that mean? Or, like, here, just like you're saying, like, Oh my gosh, do you notice how these crystals are shaped? Or these snowflakes are shaped? Or, you know, they're just constantly seeing things and noticing them because they haven't had time, I guess, to just erase the magic of them yet.

Christine: Like they are really seeing everything for the first time. And, and I love how you were like, Oh, that ice at the bottom of the hill is like the thing that ruins my day. And they're like, that's the magic. And even when we were traveling and there's like all these straight cats and I was like, Oh my gosh, this must be a huge problem here.

Christine: I wonder why that is. I wonder how they could solve it. And then my kids are just like. There's like family free family cats everywhere, you know, they're just like this is the best thing that you could ever have happened and like, wow, I just can't imagine feeling that like what joy it must be to see everything that way and even created a mantra, like when I'm traveling sometimes and feeling that like, frustration because the weather's bad or the accommodation isn't what you thought it was or whatever.

Christine: I always, I'm like, what would Jojo do? I'm like, oh, she would just be so excited about that like weird pillow, or she'd be so excited about swimming that she wouldn't care it's raining. And then I'm like, let's do that and see what that sparks. But I'm sure your kids must. Like, bring you into that both in your daily life and in, in travel.

Kat: Yeah. You know what? I think it's, it's that they are so easily able to experience awe regardless of whether it's something extraordinary or ordinary, you know, it's all the same to them. And Maybe that's, that's the big difference, you know, when I'm traveling, I am like, purposefully trying to find these moments of awe that just light me up and make me feel like, wow, the world is so incredible.

Kat: And at home, because of the nature of, you know, work and family life and routine. I don't, you know, I don't make a point of necessarily as often doing like sunrise hikes and checking out these epic views. I still prioritize that, but I get caught up into the routine. And my, my two and a half year old, it's like, I lost count of how many times he experiences all during the day.

Kat: And I think that awe is a big contributor to joy. I know a lot of people have heard that like the key to joy is gratitude, but isn't that kind of awe in a sense? It's, it's total appreciation for what's before you and honoring it in all that it is. And so I think that's one of the things that I try to do is, you know, It's not just wait for these once in a lifetime, crazy moments to seek out all, but rather try to find it in the ordinary.

Kat: And that's how you get more joy in daily life is to be present enough to fully appreciate whatever's before you. 

Christine: Yeah. I think all is such a key part of the power of travel and, and I would agree definitely if you can bring that into your daily practice that. It's going to shift something, because I think so many people, when they talk about these moments in travel, as they're experiencing awe, it's the thing that, like, both shows you that everything is possible in the world, and like, that magic is bigger than we can ever imagine, and beauty is greater than we can ever imagine, and that also, like, somehow shows us that while we're an important part of that, we're not the only part of that, And so it's like, it's really a humbling moment, I think.

Christine: And that those moments in travel are the ones that are really precious. The thing that kind of throws you off kilter like that and allows you to see the beauty and allows you to see the simplicity at the same time. And I do think that's hard for us to do because of just the way we start to process information around us.

Christine: And I was even thinking, um, earlier, you were talking a little bit about, you know, how you might behave one way here and one way when you travel. Um, and thinking about the stories that we tell ourselves and like here in this life and as this Christine, I have all these stories wrapped around me, right?

Christine: And all these identities wrapped around me. And those are the things that kind of keep me in this space. pattern. But when I travel, same as when my feet hits the ground and I have that backpack, like I have let go of guy. I have let go of mom. I have let go of like PTO. I've let go of like, all of these things don't exist anymore.

Christine: I'm just, Me. And so I think this is one thing I would love to talk to you too, is like letting go of those stories that we tell ourself is a really important part of becoming that best version of ourself and travel. If you're really aware, can show you the things you need to let go of, because they're the ones you let go of when you travel.

Christine: So I'm wondering for you, uh, how do you, how do you think travel does help us to How can we kind of let go of some of those things that we keep wrapped around us that sometimes we feel like keeps us safe, but they actually are really keeping us stuck? I think, 

Kat: yeah, that's a great question. I think that travel just in its nature of seeing different ways to do things different ways to live.

Kat: It, it forces us to question our reality. It forces us to question what we consider to be true, whether that be. You know, just how we do things or about our country or about our own identities. It, it forces, um, self reflection and just awareness of everything. And I think that that's, that part's really hard is letting go the different parts of you at home when you're not traveling.

Kat: I think that's probably one of the bigger challenges. Um, because like you said, it's like, as soon as your, your feet hit the tarmac, it's like, ah, here I am. And it's effortless. 

Christine: Next up is the lovely Lola Akinmare sharing about modeling our passion for our kids, the value of bringing our kids out into the world and how we can find connections with one another while traveling.

Christine: I have loved how travel has allowed me to connect with my daughters and how it opens them up to the world around them. Thank you. It offers them a greater understanding of more complex issues and provides context for their studies and experiences. Lola is an award winning author and photographer and also runs GeoTraveler Media, and you can hear from her in episode 155.

Christine: Okay, now I'll turn it over to Lola to share more.

Christine: I wanted to start with, um, speaking of family, uh, you have talked a lot about how you prioritize your family and your children in your career choices. And I know this is something I have struggled with even when I started my business Lotus Sojourns. I had been a stay at home mom for a period of time. So I had a sole focus on them, but I really wanted to return to my travel career.

Christine: And I remember taking my oldest and sitting down with her and saying, you know, I think I want to start a business and this is what it is. This is why it's important to me. I really miss traveling. I really miss community. I really miss creating spaces for women to connect and creating opportunities for other women.

Christine: And, you know, so I just told her, this is going to take my time away from you. My, you're not going to have my whole focus like you have had so far. And, um, so we had a little bit of a chat and then she's like, mom, you have to do this. This is what you're supposed to do and we'll be fine. Um, but I felt like that conversation was really important and it's kind of the thing that I can check my decisions against, I guess, is that, that moment.

Christine: But I would love to hear from you, how do you weigh these choices and also, you know, what example do you hope to set for your children by living a life aligned with your passions? 

Lola: Absolutely. And isn't it incredible that children know what makes their parents happy? Also happy besides them. They just know, uh, they know besides all the odds and kisses you give them and talking them into bed when at night, they know what lights their parents.

Lola: So they just feel it. Um, I was recently in Estonia, uh, over the summer, I was there at a photography, a workshop, and I posted a little status on WhatsApp and my daughter said, It makes me so happy to see you smile, and she knew I wasn't with her at that moment, but I was doing something that made us see a mom smile.

Lola: So with my kids, one thing I'm sure I'm showing them. First of all, you know, I was the breadwinner for a lot for the longest time, you know, now I am. I don't want to say unfortunately, because, um, you know, it's, we're co parent look well together. We're still friends, but I am divorced. And, uh, but while I was married, I was the breadwinner, you know?

Lola: And so I had to walk, uh, my husband, my ex at the time was going to school studying, and so he was more. And then I had to go out and, and, and walk. But even now, um, I'm very intentional about the work I do. I've always been intentional about the travels I choose. And what I'm also showing my parents, my kids, is that it's okay for their mom to do other things as well, right?

Lola: Because society can try to box them and put labels and say, this is what you're supposed to do as a woman, as an African, as a black woman, and then busting all those labels for them. So my daughter can say, you know, what if society tries to box me in, she can say, have you met my mother that there is no limits to what I can do and choose to do.

Lola: And so that is also what I'm modeling for them. The stories and the issues, especially my novels that I'm tackling is also for my kids because they're also Swedish, right? And so I'm having those difficult conversations through my work so that the soil is fertile, becomes more fertile for them to thrive in the future.

Lola: In their own country, right, as brown Swedes. So there's so, so everything I do is intentional, and it's for their sakes. I don't just travel for the sake of travel, it has to have meaning, it has to have purpose, it has to continue to further cultural connection. And, um, With my kids. They also travel a lot. I actually just got back recently from London.

Lola: We both of them. I just don't share on social media, right? So what I share on social media is just my walk. I keep them protected. I keep them. I keep it private and I will travel a lot to get I take them around with me a lot, but I keep all of that offline, you know, so in a sense. Um, It can be difficult and it was difficult for many years.

Lola: In fact, I, I have an article coming out soon that is about why I no longer have mommy guilt as a travel writer, because we've chosen or I've chosen one of the most actually judged careers, especially if you're a mom with smaller, younger kids, right? The world isn't ready to make space. For that possibility that you could be a mom with younger kids that travels.

Lola: And so in that piece, I said, at the end of the day, what matters and that's to your point is what your children think. You spoke to your daughter, you spoke to your kids, right? I spoke to my kids, my kids see it and feel it. So, so that is how it is, you know, being intentional about the travels, making sure that my kids are on board in terms of, you know, how do you feel?

Lola: Is it okay? Do you want me to, you know, okay. Do you want me to cancel this trip? And they say, yes, stay. I do. Right. But also knowing that what others think doesn't matter to me. I actually do not care what others think or how they feel like I should be a mom to my kids. Right. So that's, so that's how it is.

Christine: Yeah, I love that. And I also was just thinking, as you said, the last, you know, line of not mattering other people's opinions of your choices is actually maybe how the guilt is released, right? The guilt only becomes because you feel like you're not holding up and measuring to someone else's. Expectations.

Christine: I guess if you have guilts based on your own expectations of yourself, then maybe you have a different conversation to have 

Lola: exactly, exactly, exactly, but no, the guilt usually comes from other people's because that's usually the first thing, you know, uh, wow. Especially when I was, uh, married. And it was, wow, and your husband takes care of your kids?

Lola: Like, I'm like, yes, it's our kids, like, it's not just my kids, you know? And so society still has this kind of, um, view in terms of mothers and their roles. And giving more leeway to dads pushing strollers and applauding every single thing they do versus moms juggling every single thing. Right. And so society isn't still isn't there yet, even though it feels like all society tries to say, Oh yeah, you know, it's fine.

Lola: Moms can be working moms and this. No, it still doesn't leave space and grace for moms to, to do both. 

Christine: Yeah. To moms to also be humans. Exactly. 

Lola: But also just even do books to be career women and fantastic moms. So, 

Christine: yeah. Which, you know, you know, going back to that coin of your children seeing you smile and seeing you alive and vibrant, like that's so good for them and they're okay.

Christine: When we're not there for a week or, you know, an amount of time and it also can give partners the opportunity to be a parent. They might not have the opportunity to be if we are there kind of withholding those. Stereotypical roles. And this is just reminding me, I'm going to give a shout out to one of my good friends.

Christine: She just launched a podcast called rebel mothers. And she's talking about like the social constructs of motherhood. So if anybody is listening to Lola and I right now and getting like, really excited about this conversation, um, they should definitely listen to her podcast. And, uh, because that, I feel like this is a really important thing that so many, um, women on my podcast.

Christine: Podcasts are tackling because there are all of these kind of definitions and boxes that have been created for us that we are struggling with. So, um, I love that. Um, the next thing I would love to talk to you about is connection. I think this is a shared value that you and I both have. It's a real priority in our lives and our careers.

Christine: And, um, Um, I think as I mentioned before, it's really why I'm so drawn to your work, like the connection I feel to the images and really to like the people in those images, I feel like I get really lost in their stories just from seeing the way that you capture somebody. It really starts to invite you into who they are and the same with the, with your writing and even like I mentioned, the work that you do, it's so much about this storytelling.

Christine: And I think with that, that's. connection, but I would love to hear from you why it's so important and how photography, writing, and travel all allow you and others to create those deep connections. 

Lola: Yeah, absolutely. And I think I lost you there for a little bit, but um, no, I think connection for me has always been key.

Lola: So I'm Nigerian and I'm Yoruba. And in Nigeria, we have over 250 different, uh, tribes speaking 500 plus languages and dialects. And in Lagos alone, there's probably a cross section of those 250. Tribes living in the size of New York City. And so for us to be able to live side by side and understand each other and respect each other, we have to create a connection, connect on our similarities.

Lola: And so what I do in my work is, even though we are drastically different, How do we first connect on our similarities? So you see a bit of you in me, and then we can start making space for our differences because we've already connected on the similarities. That's why if you know, people are mothers, you know, they, even though they're different, we first connect on that similarity and then start expanding towards, okay, these are my own values.

Lola: This, this is why I do things different. 

Christine: I am happy to share a few thoughts from my friend, Catherine Gallagher, co founder of Women Travel Leaders. Which is also a podcast ally, and I thank you for your support. Catherine shares how we can see our kids through new eyes as they see and engage with the world while traveling.

Christine: You can head back to episode 116 if you want to hear the rest of the conversation.

Catherine: Well, I, I hope that, um, I think it depends on the child and I, I kind of, well, for me, like it's kind of too early to say whether, uh, Jasmine, my daughter, is going to have the same level of passion for travel what I do, uh, and But to answer your question, I think it's an opportunity. It's like travel is always a way of going out of your, not always, but it's often, um, going out of your comfort zone.

Catherine: And of course that's character building. So, uh, I think it's really valuable and important to, uh, travel for your children to travel, but also to travel, well, to travel with your children and to push them a little bit. Because I think, I mean, even like at home, sometimes my daughter doesn't want to, she won't, she's like, doesn't necessarily want to go to here, there or everywhere.

Catherine: And, and it takes some persuasion to get her to, to go. And then she loves it. So I think that, um, it's, it's an important it's that we live in this age of tech and, you know, too much screen time. And so, again, travel is a great way of moving away from that and opening their eyes to so much more than what they see in their, uh, on their screen.

Catherine: Although they see an awful lot that way, but just to actually experience. You know, hands on what's happening in different places and, um, yeah, it's very exciting that you're going for a whole year with your family. I think I totally believe and I'm sure lots of people listening to this will agree with this is that travel is by far the best education.

Catherine: And, uh, yeah, you can't beat it. Yeah, especially if I think, um, well, something that I think having gone on various sort of trips. Found trips and things in the past where if you have a really, really good guide and someone that can help to bring an experience to life for you and having like, you know, those curated experience makes a big difference as well, because you're, you are, you're learning so much, like just from, not just from being there, but from having the right guides and the right people supporting you on that trip.

Catherine: So, um, yeah. 

Christine: I think it's a great process to learn about them too, because. I feel like even as a with ourselves when we're in our daily routines, we're acting one way or we're following, you know, the flow of our daily life. And when we travel. We have that sense of freedom and so do they and then you can start to see who they are a little bit more and like the last couple of weeks, we went to the library and got guidebooks for the first few countries were planning to be on.

Christine: And I just put a sticky note on each guidebook and I asked them to go through and just like write the pages or the ideas of things that looked of interest to them. Because. I mean, we've never traveled like this before. They usually do what I like to do, but I was curious about what they would like. And, um, it's been great to see them do that.

Christine: excavation of like what they're really interested in and and then seeing like how different each of them is and like my youngest is seven and she like every time she gets home from school she grabs the scotland guidebook and she just she can't put it down and she's like i can't believe we're going here i can't believe we could see these things you know um and just that process and also when we started this like she was saying, Oh, are we going to go to California?

Christine: Are we going to go to Florida? Are we going to go to Arizona? Like the places in the U S she's been that she knows. And like, for some reason, like she just couldn't figure out what we were doing because she hasn't experienced that before. And now having these guidebooks, she's kind of understanding like, oh, we're doing something bigger than like a road trip to the Grand Canyon.

Christine: She's like starting to be able to understand because she's a little too young to understand the greatness of the world. Um, but it's also giving them a part of it. Like my middle daughter, she's just really hilarious that she's like, I don't really want to do anything. That's too like nature y. I remember hiking with her once and she was like, this hike is nice, but it's so like, naturey.

Christine: There's like bugs and trees and plants and sun. I was like, Oh my goodness. I don't know how we're going to do this together, but we'll figure it out. But anyway, that process of like exploring who they are has been really fun for me. And I don't think we often as parents get to spend that much time in that process.

Catherine: Yeah, it's perfect. Um, and yeah, it's a absolutely brilliant way to, for them, for us to understand them and. For them to understand themselves and how old are your children? 

Christine: Uh, my youngest is seven and my middle is 10 and my oldest is 12. 

Catherine: Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's going to be such a like, um, life changing trip that they won't even realize.

Catherine: until they're much older or life, you know, that it will really influence Um what they do and I think to your point of like the nature thing I think it's quite interesting looking at so with jasmine. She's um I'm like, really, you know, want to go, um, up mountains or all of that sort of thing. I'm walking and I shoot my jazz when I'm thinking, Oh, I think she's going to be like my sister.

Catherine: It was always like, Oh, do we have to go up this mountain? So, but I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, it's a brilliant way of being able to kind of see. What they're into. And I, I mean, I'm, she's only four, so I'm interested to see how that's going to develop as well, because we went to see, um, whales and it was absolutely amazing from it.

Catherine: We went out and saw these huge gray whales, like mind blowing. Uh, they were absolutely enormous. She was just totally uninterested. Like amazing thing. How can you not find this incredible? But she just is totally not interested. But what I thought was also really lovely is how she connected with, um, with uh, the people that we met and, um, how they took her in as well.

Catherine: And, uh, well we were in Mexico and they were just so brilliant. Like they're so family friendly. And, um, that was really lovely to have that kind of, again, community and that connection. And it's, again, one of the wonderful things about, um, travel as well, isn't it? You know, getting to, to meet different people and different cultures.

Christine: Yeah, and they have different levels of reservation because they haven't, they haven't developed all of those ways that we departmentalize people or create barriers based on assumptions. They have a little less of that process happening. So they're easier to just jump into those connections. And so I'm excited too, for that, because I feel like that will invite us to engage with places in a way that maybe I wouldn't because I would feel all of those resistances that I've learned.

Christine: Before I introduce the next clip, I want to take a moment to remind you that the soulful book sojourn that I run begins a new book in September, and we will be reading On Our Best Behavior, The Seven Deadly Sins and The Price Women Pay to Be Good by Elyse Lunen. She is the host of my most recommended podcast, Pulling the Thread.

Christine: I cannot wait to read and share this book with you. We will meet three times over the months of September and October for 90 minute guided discussions to give you a lot of time to sink into this book and meaningfully connect with other women to share your thoughts. Visit www. lotussojourns. com slash women's dash book dash club to join today.

Christine: I'll also share the link in the show notes. Our next guest is Retha Charette, who joined me for a conversation in episode 182, and you might recall, she's also known as the Roaming Nanny. In this clip from that conversation, she shares the importance of traveling with kids and trusting them to make sense of the world in their own way.

Retha: It's giving kids the benefit of the doubt, right? Like kids are smarter than everyone gives them credit for, like talking to them like they're humans. Don't touch it. I'm like, they're not cute. He's awakened and like, I hate when people do that to kids. They are smart. Treat them as such. And like, you can, like you said, you explained about your, to your daughter about the sea turtles and like, is that sad?

Retha: Absolutely. Does she need to know the reality of it? Absolutely. And she can handle it because you're giving her the power to fix it. And like kids, every, every kid is completely different. Everyone kid is going to have their own little journey. But like, if you teach one kid, one thing. Little actions collectively make big actions.

Retha: Like it's just, we all got to work together and everybody can do their part. And even if it's a little thing and yes, big companies are really the reason and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like companies should start taking accountability for their actions. Cause like, if I need shampoo and I can only get it in a plastic container, I mean, I need to buy the shampoo.

Retha: So like companies need to do better, but like, we can just, you know, I don't even buy shampoo in a bottle anymore. I just buy a bar. And hopefully, if more and more people did that, shampoo wouldn't be in containers that are really bad for the environment anymore. Everything that we do has a, has a reaction.

Retha: And kids can handle that and they're so smart. 

Christine: Yeah. Way to go 

Retha: mom. A plus. 

Christine: Yeah. Well, there's, there's my one plus sign for, for the day. Like you said, it's always, it's a balance for sure. Well, we had a couple more things that I really wanted to talk about and we're running out of time, but I think one thing that I just wanted to, to add on to, we're talking about children, but as one of your hats is roaming nanny, obviously that's what your, your, your brand is called.

Christine: But why do you think traveling with children, either near or And I feel like 

Retha: that's, that's a really big thing near and far. You don't have to take your kids really far away. Like, everyone's budget is completely different. And doesn't matter whether you take them to the mountains that are three hours away.

Retha: Or if you take them to the beach. over to Tanzania to go on safari. Like everyone has their own budget and everyone should do what they can because, you know, as a, as a kid, I never thought I'd actually ever go and see a real safari. And I like have actually gotten to, so like everyone's going to have their own journey there.

Retha: But like when you show kids things that are different from their reality, it helps them understand the world more. Again, as I said, kids are way smarter than everyone gives them credit for. And if you don't work with kids on a regular basis, like you, you don't necessarily know that. And, and even like, I think parents don't necessarily know that too, because parents know their kids, right?

Retha: Like, you know, your kids better than anybody, but like, you don't know somebody else's kids. So like, you know how to work with your little humans when not everybody else is. And like, if we all just like collectively agree that kids are smart. That would be great. I'd really appreciate it. And I know that they would too.

Retha: So like advocate for the little people, but like, just take them to places they aren't, that are different from, from their own. Like I grew up in like a little neighborhood in Massachusetts, like right near Cape Cod. So like I knew the ocean, but like as a kid, every summer, like we didn't have a lot of money.

Retha: We went to the white mountains in New Hampshire every summer. Like that was our vacation. And I don't, when I grew up the Appalachian trail, I actually straight through those mountains that I grew up as a kid and I. Summited Mount Washington for the very first time on that trail. And like, as I was climbing and I could cry right now, as I was climbing, I just remembered all the times that I got to look at this mountain, like as a kid, cause like my parents are not hikers.

Retha: That is not their jam in any way, shape, or form. But like, I, I saw this mountain so many times as a kid, and it was such like a privilege to get to be on top of it. And like seeing something that was totally like, to me at the time, unachievable, but like taking your kids there and be like, Oh, you can do that.

Retha: You get the right knowledge and you got to be safe and you got to know what you're doing, but you can do that. And like seeing, you talked about like going to Bali and seeing the reality. Like kids can see that and get it. When you take kids to a national park and they love it and they think it's beautiful and like, this is why we need to protect it.

Retha: Because you see those buffalo, there weren't a lot of them for a really long time because we killed them. And we are making, we totally messed up there. We're making efforts now to bring them back. And that's really important and don't go near them. Don't take selfies with them, but like observe them from afar.

Retha: And like, that's really important and seeing the grand canyon for all of its splendor. I live near Acadia national park in, it's up in Maine and it's all big, crazy coastal and lighthouses. And just seeing that difference there as a kid too. And yeah, I had beach, but not that type of beach. And just knowing that all of these little things exist and like, I should help protect them or like seeing a person that lives in a completely different way.

Retha: Maybe I should have love for them. Maybe I should understand where they're coming from and not judge where they're coming from. I mean, I, I didn't see that type of stuff, like, as an, as a kid, but like going to like India and seeing the poverty in India. And seeing the haves and the have nots because it is very polarized, right?

Retha: Yeah. And seeing that for the first time, it really affected me and like, changed my perspective on life. And like, you can do that with kids in small ways. And like, you can teach them things and not get them like, overwhelmed and sad and doomsday, blah, blah, blah about the world. But showing them beautiful places and why we should protect them.

Retha: I mean, like the, like the Lorax is a great example. Like, I absolutely love that book. I used to read it when I was a teacher and a camp counselor and all of that, because like there was one person saying something and he was totally right, but nobody listened. And like, if you can teach your kid to be that person and then they teach them, somebody else to be that person, like, then there's so many more of us to help protect the world in lots of different ways.

Retha: And we, we need that, right? Yeah. Kids are the, always the future. 

Christine: Yeah. And I, I think what's so great about that is these elements that are profound are like awe and compassion and humility, like those can be found everywhere, which I love that you reiterated that, that we can invite our children into these experiences within an hour of our own home if we're just thinking about how we can do it.

Christine: Which is great. Also, I think it's important because that means we can do it ourselves in our own lives too without having to take the time to have these huge adventures, which I know we both advocate for, but the real, the reality is that we can't do it all the time. And we can bring some of those practices and those, those feelings and experiences into our life more regularly if we just are a little bit more intentional about how we create space for them.

Christine: Our next clip comes from a guest who is no stranger to traveling with children. In fact, on her blog Hey Tara, Samantha Runkle shares all about enriching your family travels and how to make those experiences more sustainable. Here, Samantha talks about how travel helps us to understand the environmental and social circumstances we face and provide more context to help facilitate deeper conversations with our children.

Christine: Want more on this topic? Be sure to visit her website and to go back and listen to episode 138.

Christine: You had some said something about getting away from traveling for our children's level of comfort and gearing travel towards their level of growth, which I thought was just incredibly profound. Um, how do we navigate that? How do you think we can find that balance between caring for our children and keeping them safe, but also supporting their growth and like pushing them a little bit outside of their comfort zone?

Samantha: Yeah, that's great. I mean, well, every child is different. Every child has their needs and their sensibilities for sure. Um, but I know, I mean, from my experience, first of all, traveling with little ones with babies, um, you know, they really only need you. They know that they're safe when they're here. I mean, We dragged our little, we've dragged our babies when they were infants through, you know, three and a half weeks through Namibia in a camper van truck or Myanmar, you know, right before COVID.

Samantha: I mean, kind of intrepid stuff, but never once was there a situation where I felt like we were unsafe and my husband felt like we were unsafe. And I know that the kids never felt like they were unsafe. I mean, there was nothing where they felt, they were smaller, of course. There was moments when it was a little intense with maybe people trying to come to my daughter when she was a four year old.

Samantha: Um, and we were moving around through Asia and that with the, you know, kind of a little bit with touching and stuff. That was the only time where I said, okay, now I feel like she needs to be more protected with me. But other than that, and we have had the most incredible time. You know, trusting them with their adaptation, especially as they get older, because my daughter's seven now, learning how to communicate, um, letting them be free and kind of like communicate on playgrounds in different languages and kind of grow into these amazing, amazing, really world travelers, but also international human beings and really global citizens.

Samantha: Just naturally by allowing them the space to roam and Trust that I think kids are adaptive. They are malleable. And just as we were speaking about this, I just tapped into me because we live in Germany and I come from the States and there's a big emphasis on self management and trust here. So their playgrounds here are Insane.

Samantha: They're so big. There's like a zip line going down, going onto this thing. And when I first moved here, I was like, there's no way, like my kids can't climb on that thing. There needs to be like the rubber mat and everything, but nobody was giving a second look, these little four year olds, just dangling by themselves, across the zip lines.

Samantha: Like that would never fly in the States. But. By trusting and allowing them to kind of make their own decisions, they no one has ever gotten hurt or really fallen down from that zip line. And that's been the case for the most part with us with travel. And so I think if we are encouraging flexibility and kind of pushing them to try new things, Also little things like food and, you know, the easy things experiencing that adventure.

Samantha: I think by incremental change, by incremental steps, they're going to grow faster than we ever even imagined. And they just, I mean, they blow my mind. So I know that that is because I have a lot of friends and people who come and they want to know, this is that question, like they're feeling like they want to be on a routine when they're traveling or keep it how it is at home.

Samantha: But You have to let go of those routines in order to grow. And I think through that, you really shift the right vibration of your family. Cause we are, we are, when we're together, we just vibrate when we're traveling together, we are like a, like a well oiled machine and there might not be the nap at the time that my S my son usually takes us now, but we know he's going to get a nap sometime in the day and it's.

Samantha: You know, it's always been fine. If someone, if it shifts a little bit, we've always been, managed to make it happen. Or, you know, combating jet lag, or any of the stuff that can be hard. You just stick together, and, you know, I have really good jet lag tips by the way. 

Christine: For this last outtake, we are headed way back to season two to hear from Eleanor Angelis from episode 54.

Christine: Eleanor is the founder and CEO of lead, LLC, and Open Heart's big Dreams, A 5 0 1 3 C focused on increasing opportunities for K through 12 aged kids in Ethiopia.

Ellenore: I had the amazing good fortune to meet Jane Goodall, um, when we were living in Paris, um, with one of my children. Uh, and one, I felt like she much more enjoyed talking to the children than the adults, which I cannot blame anyone for. But one of the things she said of all the things that worried her in the world, and there's obviously so many things, she's, she was doing a world tour at 80.

Ellenore: I would like to be doing half of what she was doing at that age. So she was role modeling. so many ways, so many important lessons. But she said the only thing that she really worried about was young people losing hope. And I thought that was so profound and it's sort of hidden in the question you just asked.

Ellenore: How do you keep young people hopeful so they keep looking for solutions? And then I just saw a quote from Jane Goodall. I think it was yesterday that someone shared on social media. If you want to find a solution to a hard problem and you're committed to finding it, you will make progress. And I feel like that model of starting with hope and then really helping your child see how they can contribute, even as there's obstacles.

Ellenore: Like Layla and I talk about, like, some of the things we did work, some of them didn't. In the early days, we had one translation that. not very positive feedback. We had to pull all those books back, start over, find a different process. We thought we would make this trip in 2019 and then get all this, you know, big funding from large organizations.

Ellenore: That didn't happen and we ended up getting funding through very different sources. So sharing the journey and giving them tools that things that you would do in other environments like experiment. Try and experiment. Collaborate. Who else wants to do what you're doing, right? And what we found is our collaboration base has just been absolutely amazing of people who literally appear.

Ellenore: I still want to believe in magic, but like drop out of wherever when you need them for a part of the project. Um, and I think letting them see that as you put things out there and As you follow your own values and your energy, and you're open to feedback on what's working and what's not, you will learn, which is always a win.

Ellenore: And making progress is something that you have to define what it looks like before you can know what it is. And I think starting with that as a child, like, make sure they're hopeful, give them projects and then help them work through the disappointments or failures. Because frankly, I don't know anyone who life has been a straight line and only success.

Ellenore: Um, if, if there's someone out there, maybe we could meet them. But, um, for me, it's all about managing the bumps, right? And managing the detours. 

Christine: Thank you so much for joining me for this soulful mashup episode. We look forward to joining you for all new episodes in September. Until then, enjoy your journey.

Christine: Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journeywoman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes.

Christine: I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www. souloftravelpodcast. com I am so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome. I am so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect.

Christine: You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel Podcast or follow me on Instagram either at she. sojourns or at Soul of Travel Podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel Podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journeywoman community and its resources for women travelers over 50.

Christine: I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician Carly Eduardo, CEO of Convergente. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.