Soulful Mashup: Early Travel & Study Abroad

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a special summer mashup of guests who discuss the impact of early travel experiences, foreign exchange student programs, and study abroad programs.

Guests highlighted include:

· Kat Medina

· Kirsten Gardner

· Tara Busch

· Bronwen Lodato

· Hilary Matson

· Julie Hanen

Join Christine for this special soulful mashup episode. 

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Soul of Travel Podcast is nominated for a Women in Podcasting Award in the Travel Category! You can vote for Soul of Travel as your favorite travel podcast from August 1 through October 1.

https://womeninpodcasting.net/soul-of-travel-podcast-womens-wisdom-mindful-travel/

To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Kat Medina, Kirsten Gardner, Tara Busch, Bronwen Lodato, Hilary Matson, Julie Hanen (Guests). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel, Women's Wisdom and Mindful Travel. I'm your host Christine Weinbrenner Eirich. Each week, you'll hear me having soulful conversations with women who are tourism professionals, trailblazers, and community leaders around the world. They share their personal and professional journeys to inspire you, and their stories teach you how to become a more conscious traveler, live life aligned with your values, and create a positive impact.

Christine: We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel. In August on Soul of Travel, we are sharing a few soulful mashup episodes on different topics that will feature clips from past guests. Our guests will be sharing about family travel and traveling with kids, the impact that early travel experiences had on their lives and careers.

Christine: And this is a unique opportunity to bring them together for you in a way that we hope adds even more value. Each of these topics touches on the importance of travel in our lives, how travel connects us to the world and shapes us into global citizens, And I'm especially excited to share the many ways our guests work to support the UN SDGs.

Christine: I'll be sharing an article about that this month too, so make sure you're on our email list. Just visit our website www. souloftravelpodcast. com and sign up there. I'd also like to share that Soul of Travel Podcast is nominated for a Women in Podcasting Award in the Travel category. You can vote for Soul of Travel as your favorite travel podcast from August 1st until October 1st.

Christine: You can visit www. womeninpodcasting. net. I'll make sure I leave the link in the show notes in case you missed it. I will also be announcing a campaign to support the podcast and help us bring you these important conversations and continue to amplify the voices of women around the world in the tourism industry.

Christine: That's another great reason to be on our email list. It will be hosted on the amazing platform ifundwomen. com. We are also seeking sponsors and have space for advertisers for season six. Just send me an email to connect at lotussojourns. com. Okay, that's enough housekeeping. It's time to get to our summer mashup episode.

Christine: Here we go.

Christine: Today's Soulful Mashup features guests talking about the impact of early travel on our lives and careers. We'll hear outtakes from six of my past guest interviews and learn more about their experiences. I could never choose a favorite guest or even a top 10, but I will say that all of these interviews hold a special place in my heart and I'm excited to revisit them with you for this episode.

Christine: Our first outtake comes from Kat Medina, who originally joined us in episode 166 and was recently featured in our summer reading episode as we were talking about her book, The Joys of Jetlag. In this outtake from her episode, Kat shares about her study abroad experience in France and how powerful it was for her to understand the ways that education is different and that there are so many so called right ways to live a life.

Christine: That is something she continues to observe and value in her travels today.

Kat: So, um, when I was growing up, we went on a couple of trips, um, but I would say the most impactful one was actually when I was 17, I participated in a study abroad program called AFS in France. And before leaving, I had actually applied for. the program that was located in Australia. And then a couple months before I left, I got an email saying that there weren't enough host families there, and I could choose between France, Italy, and Venezuela.

Kat: And, um, at the time, Venezuela was, you know, Pretty rocky and a lot of those kids that ended up doing that program got sent home because it was unsafe And in my high school They only taught French or Spanish. And so I figured you know, I'll take a couple months of French Better than nothing, but I basically left knowing how to count to ten and sing songs in French, you know the joys of public school, but On arrival.

Kat: It was such a shock to my senses You Because I didn't know the language and I got plopped into a French high school and was living with a family and I was fully immersed in the language and the culture and it was incredibly challenging, but it made me feel so alive. I remember leaving. You know, SFO leaving the airport and turning back and waving goodbye to my family and friends who came to see me off.

Kat: And it was equal parts scared and excited and just not knowing that it was going to change my life, but not exactly sure how. And there were lots of challenges that I had to face head on when I was there by myself. And I rose to the occasion. And I learned so much about the world, like going to a different high school.

Kat: I realized that every country's version of world history is different. Uh, you know, they like to, like the U S is the protagonist of, of our history. And in France, the French are the protagonist of theirs. And so learning the differences, what was taught was really eye opening and also just seeing, just, there's.

Kat: There's more than one right way to live a life. And that's one of the, my favorite parts about traveling to different places and especially countries where the cultures are so different is it makes you realize there's so many different ways to go through life and you can pick and choose what works for you based on what you see and experience.

Kat: Um, but once I got back, I was absolutely hooked. And I, I tried to prioritize solo travel, um, for the first several years. Um, just cause I felt like it was such a cool experience that landed you somewhere where you didn't know a soul. And if you're able to spend an extended period of time in one of these countries by yourself, it's kind of like you create this.

Kat: This alternate life, you can create a whole new friend group. And, um, I really loved that aspect of it. Cause it made me feel like an adventure and explore, which is what I wanted to be when I grew up. Um, and yeah, it changed my life. That trip, that first solo trip. 

Christine: Yeah. I think, uh, people that have the opportunity to travel so young like that too, it, I think is a, A really different experience because you have that shift or that awareness so early on, um, and as you were talking about the history in particular, I remember the same kind of awareness of realizing that history is told from the perspective of wherever you are, everywhere you go.

Christine: And then also kind of having the awareness of that there's actually no one true narrative of any of history, which also then was like unsettling and also maybe kind of comforting at the same time because it, it just, it just, it was really powerful to realize how focused we can be in our own experience.

Christine: And then to realize that everybody has these. kind of ways that things are shaped for them. And then that when you travel, you can kind of start to break that down and put it together for yourself. And I think that's so powerful. Um, I would love to know if there was a moment related to travel where you really had the aha and then realize the disconnect between Like your everyday cat and travel cat, because you talk a lot about how to kind of bring those two pieces together.

Christine: So when did you realize maybe that they were separate personas? 

Kat: Um, I knew for a while, like, I just, I felt like for the majority of my life, I was two different people. You know, I was my best self when I was on my trips. I, it was like the qualities that I admired most. We're effortless. Joy was effortless.

Kat: And that was always a big priority. I wanted to live a joyful, passionate life where I felt like I was living each moment to the fullest. And when I traveled, it was like, as soon as my feet hit foreign ground, it was, you know, Instantaneous and then, you know, I, I traveled to about 35 countries and I, I lived in Ecuador, France, Argentina, Spain, and then California.

Kat: And, um, I just started to notice that. As much as I prioritize traveling, you know, I was lucky to be able to go on as many trips as I did. I still spent the majority of my time working in California. And, uh, I realized that in between these trips, I would just kind of hunker down, make some, like save a bunch of money, work really hard and then go on the trip.

Kat: And it was like that cycle of always looking forward to where I was going next. And. I noticed that when I was at home, I wasn't my best self. You know, I, Would take things for granted stuff that I knew firsthand from so many of the places that I'd been been were, you know, really incredible, uh, like just hot water when you shower or being able to trust the water that for the most part that comes out of your sink that you can drink it.

Kat: Um, being able to go and get gas for your car without questioning if there would be enough. Um, I just overlooked all these things that were. Dependable and ordinary because I had just gotten so used to them. And beyond that, I noticed that when I was at home, I would try to control the uncontrollable, which never works out.

Kat: I get all frustrated if I was working and there was some, you know, inevitable work fire I had to put out or some last minute change. And, um, would, I hate to admit it, but would let it ruin my day sometimes. Um, and I just, I lacked the lightheartedness that would allow me to see mishaps as part of the adventure, which was effortless when I traveled.

Kat: And so one day I was working and I was a couple months out from my next trip. And I realized that so much of my time was Spent at home being my, the version of myself that I wasn't the most proud of. And only small amounts of, of my year were actually spent abroad being my best self. And it felt like just this epiphany where it felt like such a waste, you know, to spend my days wishing I was somewhere else instead of enjoying where I was.

Kat: And I had this realization that it was like, I already know how to be the best version of myself because It's effortless when I'm abroad. So how, so I already know I can do it, but how do I bring that home? How do I bring that version of me everywhere, no matter where I am? Um, and what I did is I started to kind of pinpoint the different values that I naturally embodied when I was abroad.

Kat: And I kind of dubbed it for myself, just a traveler's mindset. Like when I was abroad, I adopted this mindset and. I figured out for me what that was made up of and tried to bring that home. And it's an ongoing practice. But ever since I made that commitment, I've been experiencing so much more joy in between the trips.

Kat: And it makes me feel like, yes, now I'm living life to the fullest because I'm present in each moment, not just the exceptional, exceptional, Especially the mundane, the ordinary that we get used to. 

Christine: In my conversation with Kirsten Gardner, she shares about her travels with Semester at Sea. Her time in Myanmar was very influential to the way she thinks about travel today, and helped to shape her company and the experience she creates as a co founder at Outlier Journeys.

Christine: Here, we focus on this early travel experience, but the entire conversation was so powerful. So if you love this outtake, I highly recommend heading back to episode 170 to hear all of the beautiful wisdom shared.

Kirsten: Yeah. Uh, so first just to give a little bit about the structure of Semester at Sea, since it is such a non traditional study abroad program, um, at the time that I did it, which was fall of 2005. It was sponsored by the University of Pittsburgh. So they, it's always sponsored by one university. I don't know where it is now.

Kirsten: Um, but then it's open to students from all over the world, from all different colleges. It's still primarily North American students are the majority, but I remember we had students from Egypt and Mexico and so had a smaller international component in the student body. Um, and we were gone for 100 days and you were.

Kirsten: As I said earlier, you had classes while on board, and then when you were in ports of call, you had a set amount of time with which you could explore that country. You could either go out on trips that professors had organized, um, or, or you were on your own, um, and so I quickly realized that I very much enjoyed Trying to figure out the logistics of moving through a destination and and doing things on my own.

Kirsten: Um, they had a small library on board. It was stocked with lonely planets. So prior to arriving in a port of calls up late, pouring over things, trying to figure out. just how to, how to get from A to B, how to buy plane tickets in India or, you know, train tickets in South Africa to go to the wine country.

Kirsten: Um, but one, one certain aspect of this trip that I, um, I would like to tell the story about is our time in Myanmar. And I meant to look things up earlier. So I didn't, uh, misspeak about the history of the U S embargo against Myanmar, but in fall of 2005, I'm pretty sure we were the first educational student group from a U.

Kirsten: S. university that had been allowed to enter the country since the embargo. Um, and at the time we entered Myanmar, uh, I was also, one of my classes on board was called Literature of the World. And we were reading Paul Thoreau's Great Railway Bazaar. And he has a chapter or two about traveling by train through Myanmar.

Kirsten: And we use that as our inspiration. We're like, okay, let's re let's retrace this journey to Tangu, um, which was one of the former capitals of the country when it was a kingdom. Um, and yeah, using that as our guide, we, we got. I remember we were sailing up the Irodotty River to Yangon. Um, and unlike other ports of call where there was actually more of a port and docks and facilities, we literally like the boat stopped along the side of the river, there are high grasses, there was like one wooden gangplank and there were.

Kirsten: Ox carts and old Soviet era trucks. And just, it was like stepping back in time. Um, and even though in 2005, you know, cell phones were pretty normal at this point, you know, obviously you're using the internet for research. Um, Myanmar had been very closed, so there were no ATMs, there was no electronic banking system.

Kirsten: You took cash with you and you traded, changed it on the black market. Um, there was absolutely no cell phone coverage. There was no internet. So it was like being transported back kind of into the style and era of travel that Paul Thoreau was writing about in the sixties and seventies. And I remember we, when we got on the train, we were, we had the book with us and it was like watching the pages come to life.

Kirsten: Like the way that he described these rickety old like Soviet era cars kind of swaying back and forth and to a degree like rather frighteningly, um, at pretty high speed wondering like, oh, is this going to derail, um, to describing the women that had baskets on their head that would come onto the tracks when the train was stopped and sell, um, sell different eggs and different, different foods, um, and just the, the smell Of Myanmar.

Kirsten: I remember very distinctively, they smoke something called cheroots, which are a type of rolled bark cigar. And the aroma of that has just stuck with me. So I can think of like three times since I've been in the country where I've smelled that elsewhere. And instantly I'm like, wow, that smells like Burma.

Kirsten: Um, but so we traveled, we traveled to Tangu. Um, I'm going to chastise myself here at the time. Our goal was from the lonely planet. To go visit an elephant logging camp where they were used for logging teak. And definitely at the time I was not aware and didn't think about, um, you know, it's not great to use elephants for tourism in this way and taking pictures on them and riding them is definitely frowned upon.

Kirsten: Um, or even having them work in this because they're such intelligent, amazing beings. But we were going to this elephant camp. Um, it was a misadventure that I won't get into getting there. But in Tongoo, uh, we were staying at a guest house and across the street, there was a, it was called the Happy Restaurant and it was owned, um, by the, a family, the Yangs.

Kirsten: And one of the family members, his name was Victor. He had worked in international shipping on cargo vessels for a while. So he spoke, he spoke several different languages. He spoke very, very good English. Um, and he was just, So surprised that there were Americans in his town, because again, no one from the U S had been in Myanmar for a really long time.

Kirsten: Um, so he, he welcomed, I was traveling with my good friend Dana at the time. He welcomed us in, we had this amazing feast in his restaurant, just sharing stories, um, you know, probably drinking too much whiskey, all, all of the impromptu kind of human connection you get that comes with travel organically. Um, and he.

Kirsten: Said something to us. He's like the next day, I want to, I want to take you somewhere. Um, and we did, we, um, for, for two days, we went with him by boat to, um, a small community called Shanwati. At the time it was, um, it was, he, Victor was Karen or Karen, um, it's K A R E N, it was, it's one of the ethnic minorities in Myanmar, um, it's a group that they, you know, their, their ethnicity and their identity transcends borders, they're not just, um, of Myanmar, but they were heavily persecuted by the Burmese government at the time.

Kirsten: And, um, this village that he took us to was Kren, and it's where his father, who had been a doctor, was one of the folks who would go and make the pilgrimage to provide medical services to this, to this community, you know, once or a couple times a year. And Victor would go with him when he was younger. Um, and I don't know.

Kirsten: I don't know what made him do this for us, but it was one of the most special experiences I've ever had in my life. Just, we stayed overnight in this village. People were, there was so much genuine curiosity. Like, we were showing each other our ID cards and like our passport and then they had a government document and just commenting on how different it was at the time.

Kirsten: And we could smile on our passport photos and in Myanmar, no one would think of having a government photo where you would smile in it. We stayed in a monastery overnight in the village. People just, they were so generous and welcoming in terms of feeding us and, uh, just sharing their community with us overnight.

Kirsten: And we were, we had such a gift and Victor inviting us in. We never would have had that experience without meeting him. Um, and. We, I can't, story can go on forever, but, um, we, we came back, we said goodbye to Victor and somehow I was like, I'm going to come back and see, like, this was so, I remember like when, when we left this village by boat, just hugging him and crying, I'm like, thank you for this gift you just gave us.

Kirsten: Um, and we promised we would stay in touch and we did. We were pen pals. Um, I would get letters from him from Myanmar, completely censored. Um, they were being read by the government and, um, I would write back to him. I think sometimes he would get them. Sometimes he wouldn't, but because the cause of his ethnicity and his ethnic group being persecuted, he eventually left Tongu.

Kirsten: Um, and I didn't hear from him for a gap of time. And then he contacted me from a refugee camp in Thailand, um, called the Mela refugee camp. It's outside of Maysot. Um, And I think I was, I was in my late twenties. So it had been probably like eight years or so since I had seen him. And I decided I was working in travel at the time, um, for a virtuoso travel agency.

Kirsten: And I decided that year I was going to go to Thailand and find Victor and keep this promise that I would see him again. Um, and I did, I went to, I went to Mela. Um, there was a Catholic charities organization that I stayed with when I was there and they. Um, this priest helped me, he got me, I had, what, UNHCR, like, fake credentials that kind of let me move in and out of the camp and visit Victor.

Kirsten: Um, and I think I was there for a week, and I just, I just remember that experience being amazing. The camp was so big. It was, um, it was a city of people who were displaced and people who without a home, um, and in talking to Victor and kind of him sharing stories, but the people he knew there, you know, there were, there were generations of folks who had children born in that camp.

Kirsten: They live their lives in that camp and they, they would die there without ever really being able to claim a place as home. Um, and I think that's. That experience, knowing Victor, knowing that he had no peace in his home. Knowing what he went through living in this refugee camp, and he eventually left and went back into Myanmar, um, 10 years ago for my 30th birthday, I went back to Myanmar.

Kirsten: I tried to locate him both in Yangon and in Tonggu and couldn't find any, any trace of him at all. And emails went unanswered. And so I, I don't know what happened to him. He probably could have been imprisoned or killed, um, just because of what has been going on in the country with with the military dictatorship.

Kirsten: Um, But that experience in Mela and my, my friendship with this man who our lives were so different, um, across more than a decade has really impacted how I think, and then what, what I think our powers individuals can be. Um, from just the decisions we make as single people to being small business owners and how we can try to help to impart change.

Kirsten: And I don't want to, I hope I'm not romanticizing any of this. It was, um, the experience of being there and may law was shocking and sad. Um, and at the time I was, I was, um, in graduate school for, um, international development. And. I eventually dropped out. I didn't finish my, my master's degree in that, but I was really struck by thinking, what a, like, what a massive tragedy this is that we have in the world, that there are just so many people who can't, can't find home.

Kirsten: They can't go back home. They can't. integrate, they don't want to integrate into the society they're in. Um, and what can I possibly do to impact that? 

Christine: Tara Bush is the founder and CEO of Conscious Travel Collective. In this clip, Tara shares a beautiful connection that began with her family welcoming a foreign exchange student to live with them when she was 12, and the deep friendship and extended family relationship that continues to this day.

Christine: Tara experienced the beauty and importance of connection and community, and during our conversation in episode 159, she shares that when she entered the travel space professionally, she saw an opportunity for non performative, authentic experience in which travelers could make connections through natural and intentional interactions.

Christine: She believes that the right circumstances can be cultivated to facilitate these types of connections. Let's hear more from Tara now.

Tara: I really fell in love with travel at a young age. I was able to kind of explore a lot on my own. My mom was very brave and let me kind of go out in our backyard and into the town or the next town over, right? So, um, Finding my way around the world and discovering my interests through getting out and about was always something that I really called to me.

Tara: I love maps and I love to like kind of intentionally get lost and find your way around was really a fun way to use your imagination, explore. Um, and then I had a really transformational experience as a child where we had an exchange student. And that opened my eyes in a huge way to like international travel and connecting with people from totally different backgrounds.

Tara: So starting Conscious Travel Collective was really about putting travelers in touch with those kinds of experiences, meeting people in their home or at their table or in their community in these kind of small, very personal ways. Um, and so it's really about bringing people together and letting the local people tell the story of their home.

Tara: So when you're traveling somewhere, you can connect with that place through people, through building relationships with them. Um, I think that gives us a lot more meaning and a deeper way to explore. And we do specialize with small groups. So everything is. private, you know, tailored design for the group.

Tara: But, uh, ideally we like to put together trips for groups that are between six to twelve people. It's kind of like the magic number. We've certainly designed trips for solo travelers or couples, um, but where we're really want to establish our niche is in these small groups where people are coming together to, you know, meet with local folks and having these experiences where they can really open up and draw on that kind of the magic that can happen in a group.

Tara: Um, so yeah, that's the short story. 

Christine: I would actually love to go back and talk a little bit more about, um, that experience you had when you said you had a foreign exchange student and, um, that really kind of opened your eyes and then I know you were able to travel and travel with them to visit their family.

Christine: And I think, um, as a someone growing up in a small community in rural Montana, The foreign exchange students that would come through were so interesting to me because, you know, we did not have really any diversity in the community I was in. I was really intrigued to hear their stories. I mean, just the fact that they could speak two languages was something that seemed completely, you know, unrelatable because that's not something that we grow up in the United States learning multiple languages.

Christine: Most of the students coming to our school from like Germany, for instance, also spoke. You know, German, English, French, maybe another language on top of that. And so I know for me, that was also something that really was like, one of the first things that made me think, you know, what else is happening out in the world, but I would love to hear about your experience and how.

Christine: How that really opened your eyes to what travel could offer. 

Tara: Yeah. I love talking about this. I have such a special place in my heart for the foreign exchange program. I know so many people, when you bring it up, they have a personal connection to it that, you know, this is something really wonderful that, that a lot of us have connected with.

Tara: But, um, for me, we had an, a student, her name is Aline. She was coming from France. I was 12 years old when she spent the summer with us. And I grew up as an only child, um, in a single parent household. So it was just my mom and I, and to have someone else come and spend the summer was like, you know, having a family member or a sister or somebody for the first time, it was just such this cool novel experience.

Tara: And then add to that, that she was bringing her unique, you know, background and I hadn't spent time with them. People from abroad, I haven't hadn't traveled abroad at all myself. So, um, it was a huge eye opener. Like you were saying, you know, she would tell us about how she was taking English and she was specifically taking American English classes versus British English.

Tara: And this like, Blew my mind. Like what there's a distinction, you know? Um, so all those kinds of little things when you're encountering people from different cultures, of course, there's dozens of stuff like this happening all the time. And she and I would go out and about the two of us together and explore.

Tara: Um, she was four years older than I was. And so she's 16, I'm 12. And the exchange program had also, um, coordinated a bunch of activities. Like, you know, this is Southern California, so maybe we would go to Hollywood one day or, you know, Go to the desert and I would join her for these activities. So we, we became really close over the summer and of course, like huge tears and you know, everyone's just devastated at the end of the summer when she had to go home, but we made a promise that we'd see each other again and she did.

Tara: She came back the next year without the program and just stayed with us for four or five weeks. Roughly. And then she and I got on a plane together and I went and spent five weeks with her family and her parents had had, um, with like a group of friends and cousins, there was probably 20 people had arranged for this summer home.

Tara: So we flew in, we went to the town that she grew up in, were there for 2 or 3 days, and then we went over to the, you know, beach house, the summer house. And I think. Aline, our student, was the only one that really spoke English. There was a little bit of English here and there, but by the time I left, I just felt like these people were my family.

Tara: I loved them. I had an amazing time. I had definitely found that, you know, connection can really build and grow and become something that feels deep, like deeply rooted to them. Even when we couldn't. speed, you know, just the interactions of being together and feeling so loved. They had like a little pet name for me as Madam Butterfly because I was obsessed with the French butter.

Tara: It was the best thing I'd ever tasted. And, um, I think they would laugh about how much butter I was putting on my bread, but, um, you know, just these little like kindness, they noticed the things that I liked and, you know, would just, they were so sweet and loving and attentive and fun. And we played games and went swimming and it was a blast.

Tara: So. I felt really close to them. And at this time, I'm 13. I'm coming back, um, back home at the end of the summer, just before school starts. And it was the summer going into eighth grade and like, what a gift this was to see how big the world is, how much space there is for different kinds of people, different ways of living.

Tara: I think I came back a, you know, 10 times more confident kid than when I had left. Um, and Aline and I have stayed in touch. It's been, um, nearly 30 years and we see each other at least once, if not twice a year. She now has 2 daughters and my husband and I are the godparents to her daughters. They come and spend, you know, like a month in the summer.

Tara: Um, and he and I usually will go in the spring and visit them. And so, you know, my mother's actually going to go this Christmas and spend two weeks with Alain and her family. And they're, they're our family, these people. And, you know, from this little kind of chance encounter. And again, I don't speak French.

Tara: And they, you know, her family has not learned English over these years, but we have this 30 year bond and we're just drawn to each other. And. Love each other with, um, with just this sense of connection and this feeling. So, yeah, amazing, amazing experience. 

Christine: When our next guest was a teen, she set out on a 30 day sailing expedition that would truly shape her life and career.

Christine: Bronwyn Lodato is the founder of Bronwyn Jewelry, and we met because I am a huge fan of her business and the beautiful jewelry, including a necklace given to me by my mom for my birthday many years ago, that I wear every day. In this outtake, Bronwyn talks about her experience with Outward Bound. An international outdoor school that focuses on self reliance, emotional maturity, in addition to hard outdoor skills.

Christine: During this time, she also participated in their three day solo experience, which taught her so much. In fact, she was so inspired by this experience. She went on to become an instructor, which eventually led her to Bend, which is now her hometown and community where she met her husband. If you love this outtake, be sure to go back and listen to Bronwyn in episode 122 for the full conversation.

Bronwen: So Outward Bound is an international outdoor school. Um, it focuses on self reliance, hard technical outdoor skills, emotional maturity. It focuses on as many soft skills as it does on the hard skills. So while you may be on a rock climbing course, You're also really working on within yourself, how to operate within a group, how to navigate, uh, social interactions with people that you may not have anything in common with, um, teaches you to be a compassionate, responsible steward of the land as well.

Bronwen: So, um, it's in many, many countries, but I, As a 16 year old did my first course, which was a, um, 30 day sailing off the coast of Maine. So I did it with the Hurricane Island Outward Bound School. And it's, um, that was chosen by my parents because my sister had done, and my brother had done their courses through Hurricane Island and had subsequently the years following gone back and volunteered.

Bronwen: And then become employed with the Outward Bound. So it was sort of in my family. I was a rebellious teenager and, um, I wasn't signing up myself for it, but I was, I was signed up by my parents and they actually made an agreement with me, which was kind of shameless bribery, which was that if you don't come back after 30 days and say that this was.

Bronwen: One of the most impactful life experiences you've ever had will pay you the amount of money that we're spending to send you on this course and those courses are not cheap. They do have a great scholarship program, by the way, and a lot of financial aid. Um, And so I agreed and I did this 30 day course and we sailed in these kind of archaic wooden pulling boats, which was more, more rowing than actually sailing.

Bronwen: And you do like a three day solo where they'll drop you on an island and you make your own little shelter and you have a very small amount of food for three days, but it's really to, um, be with yourself, learn how to be with yourself. Um, and of course they're checking that you're safe and everything, but that experience is so much of who I am today.

Bronwen: And it really, I went back and worked as an instructor for outward bound for many years later. Um, and, and that experience was just as profound. It's an, it's an incredible program. 

Christine: Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. And within that, there's just so many of the. Like kind of key elements that I speak with people about of why travel is so important.

Christine: And, you know, that the idea that you were talking about with being, um, on your own and, uh, many people talk about it in the context of solo travel and how that allows you to become so self reliant and confident and independent and be able to be resourceful and, you know, Again, kind of even going back to this idea of playing in the fields, like these similar ideas of how you learn to trust and have conversations with yourself.

Christine: And I think, especially in today's day and age, we don't learn to be by ourself because of the technology that we're inundated with. Even if you were by yourself, you're not alone usually. And, um, I just think it's so incredibly powerful. And so that's one thing that I really wanted to tap into. And then also the, the ideas that you had mentioned of, you know, finding connectivity and ways to engage with people with whom you might not see a commonality.

Christine: I mean, obviously travel creates the space for that to happen over and over and over. And, and again, is one of the most powerful things that it does offer you because it, it breaks down these preconceptions that you have, that you are not same when in fact you are. And so, I love that all of that is really packed into these experiences besides all the skills that you're actually learning to be in the outdoors.

Christine: But how does that resonate with you? Because I'm sure as you're listening, those experiences are kind of, you know, you can, that resonates for you. 

Bronwen: So, so perfectly it does. I mean, I can literally hearken back to those three days I spent alone on that island under that little tarp with I mean, we couldn't even bring a book.

Bronwen: It was, you know, we didn't have phones at that point, but you know, there, there was no external stimulation and, um, you know, the real feelings of loneliness. And, um, you, you know, frustration and anger and sadness that we all have as humans. I still have those feelings on when I'm traveling solo these days.

Bronwen: And yeah, I have my book and yeah, I have my phone or my computer or whatever. But, um, I really think that at the time I wasn't aware of it, but now I am when I'm traveling alone and I'm having those feelings of loneliness. and being able to kind of call it out and be like, okay, I see what's happening here.

Bronwen: I'm feeling lonely. And there's, I'm in this country and there's all these people and people are traveling as groups or with their families or whatever. And I'm, I'm here on my own and I'm kind of, I'm kind of lonely right now. But I, but I can see this. I can see this for what it is. And I think that, um, one of the things that I so much want my daughter to understand is that these are, these are human emotions that we all have in it.

Bronwen: You may not even be alone. When you feel lonely, you may be surrounded by people that you love and you can still feel lonely. And that's a really, uh, okay. That's an okay feeling. It's a natural feeling. It's a, it's a normal feeling. It's a common feeling. Um, so, Yeah. And two, just like, I mean, in that particular instance, in that, in that circumstance, we're on like a 16 foot boat.

Bronwen: There's like 10 of us. It's co ed. We're teenagers. So we're awkward in every way, girls and boys. And like, you're pooping off the side of the boat. Like there are not bathrooms. Like that's how you have to go to the bathroom. And so it's like, well, yeah, you can hold out for two days or whatever, but like, you're going to have to go.

Bronwen: And being, you didn't choose those people. Like that group was chosen for you. And yet it becomes the perfect. group because you're in this experience together. And I still like relish experiences like that, where I'm like, this is, this is, I'm in, in this new group. Like what, what is this group? Let's let's bring it.

Christine: I love these mashup episodes for taking me back to early episodes. Hilary Mattson, the founder of Ugen Earthside, joined me for a conversation in season three, and you can find it by searching for episode 55. It's especially fun to look back because she and I have had the opportunity to meet a few times now in person, and I have been able to see her business really grow after being in its very early stages when we talked.

Christine: In our conversation, she talks about a trip she took in college where she visited several countries and it really opened her eyes to the world. After returning home to Seattle, she began taking one big international trip each year. Then she took a job in Paris that allowed her to deepen her connection to another culture.

Christine: And I'll let Hillary share the rest.

Hilary: So how travel found me? That's, that is a good question. I would say I first got the travel bug, uh, during my university years. So college years in the U S and I did a big study abroad program where we visited a number of countries over, over a term. And that really opened my eyes up to just how much of the world there is to see.

Hilary: And I was in my, I think I was 21 on that trip. So very young and impressionable. And I'll maybe come back to this later, but part of it, a huge part of the inspiration for you and our side actually came from one of those experiences. Because I rode an elephant when I was in Thailand on, on that school trip.

Hilary: And I didn't really think anything of it at the time. So, I mean, I'll put a little pin on that, but I'll, I'll come back to how that kind of inspired you can or sign. But after that, I started traveling a lot. I did kind of like one big international trip a year. And, uh, and then from. Because I'm from Seattle or maybe not because, but I am from Seattle and many people in Seattle are hyper focused on things like composting and recycling and being green and biking to work and like living this sustainable lifestyle.

Hilary: So that has kind of been in my blood forever. And so then I started working after, after college, I was working for a huge multinational company that has nothing to do with travel or sustainability. And that job brought me over to Paris and it was always, you know, Simply a personal dream of mine to live here in Paris.

Hilary: So I did that. And after a couple of years in the Paris office, I realized that I really wasn't very fulfilled and that I, you know, I knew for a long time that I wanted to do something outside of corporate America. And I knew that I was going to require financial planning and savings and an appetite for risk.

Hilary: And so I had a lot of this stuff in my mind for a while. And so I made a decision to leave the company, but to stay in Paris. And then I really had time to reflect and think about what is it that I want to do. And in the process of this, I. Pursued an MBA. So I did that and I graduated in June of 2020, but the MBA program I chose had a special focus, both for entrepreneurship, as well as social and inclusive business.

Hilary: And so I had the idea for Uganda side. And so I got this MBA degree, but it also allowed me to write my business plan in the context of the academic program and learn about different structures of business, which is how I came to learn about social enterprises, for profit social enterprises. Where you can have an altruistic mission as well as making money that like, it's not a bad thing to make money, especially if you're making money so that you can try to help more people and causes.

Hilary: So yeah, it really was, it was a huge pivot and life shift of, of getting out of like the office grind nine to five and thinking about what do I want to reflect back on my life and be very proud of? Like, what do I want to contribute? Like, it's so easy to feel so small. The news is so depressing. And I feel like.

Hilary: With you and her side, I get to work on things that are very aligned with my personal values, but they're also aligned with my interests and hobbies. And it also lets me feel like every day I'm actually helping people do something better. Whether that's thinking about carbon offsetting their flights or learning about the difference between, uh, sustainable travel and mass tourism or what overtourism is, or how to pack more zero waste travel products, whatever it is, I feel like it's just a little tiny piece of like chipping away at this massive, massive problem.

Hilary: But at least I feel like I'm doing something about it. And that was kind of like a very, very important driver for me was like, you just, you spend so much of your time and your mental capacity during work hours. So like what you do during work hours matters, like you might not have the energy to do all these save the world things in your, in your free time.

Hilary: So. This was sort of the perfect, the stars aligning of like, okay, this is what I want to do 

Christine: now. 

Hilary: This is what I want to 

Christine: try. I'm excited to share this last clip with you. This guest is a fellow Montanan. And while I live in Colorado now, I will always call Montana home. And she has the greatest story of Kismet.

Christine: as travel worked its magic to find her. In this conversation with Julie Haynen, she shares a family trip to Mexico that led her to realizing she needed to learn to speak Spanish. That realization was a catalyst for a move to Chile where she spent a year studying and hiking in the Andes. And exploring many other countries in South America.

Christine: I know I keep saying it, but these are all such fun and interesting conversations. So after you hear from her here, be sure you download episode 80 to hear more from Julie and unwrap even more of her journey that led to her founding ride the Earth and Earth visions travel.

Julie: So growing up in Bozeman after high school, I basically. When I kind of started really getting into the travel industry, well, I should back up, um, I, I really discovered a love for travel after high school. I kind of, I think growing up, I had a little bit of a wanderlust. I think in Montana at the time, I felt very, um, away from the world.

Julie: We were kind of in, you know, it's this little nook of the states where, you know, fairly rural. And, um, and I always, you know, I saw the rest of the world as this bright and shiny place. And, uh, and growing up, you know, I started learning about the Aztecs Mayans and ancient cultures. And I started getting really intrigued about places like Mexico and South America and Egypt.

Julie: And after high school, I decided I just, I needed to go and explore. And I went to Mexico for the first time. And, uh, really, I remember having a great. charades conversation with someone because I didn't speak Spanish and they didn't speak English. And we ended up having this awesome conversation, but it was all through basically charades and trying to speak two different languages.

Julie: And it was really fun. And we had this cool experience, but I went home and I was like, I need to learn Spanish. And so I, in, in college, I decided to do a study abroad and I went and I moved to Chile for a year because in Montana that, you know, we have quite a bit of diversity in Montana now, but compared to when I was younger, there really wasn't much.

Julie: And so I knew if I wanted to learn Spanish, I wanted to go to South America. So I moved to Chile for a year and, um, I got to hike through the mountains in the Andes and honestly that was, that experience was what really opened my eyes to what the world is, how, how diverse it actually is. Like in my mind, I think I had this vision, much like a lot of people that have never been to Latin America.

Julie: I had no idea how different every single country in Latin America was. And I was living in Chile and I had four day weekends every weekend. And so a friend of mine and I, we would go and just kind of pick new locations to go and explore. We went to Bolivia, we went to Ecuador, we went to Argentina. We went on many multi week, Backpacking trips.

Julie: And I just, I really like Bolivia was a big one for me where I really, I mean, it smelled completely different. The poverty level was completely different. And just that, you know, the food and every country in Latin America is slightly different. And there's just nuances that are completely related to their culture.

Julie: And I just came back from that experience, fascinated. And, and I wanted to share that with people. I came back, I did this whole slideshow on, on South America and the differences between the different cultures. And, and that was something that was just, it was a really lasting impression for me, where it was something that it just really opened my eyes and where I saw the world differently than I had ever learned in the book and, uh, And that really kind of started my journey on a lot of, on a lot of levels.

Julie: Um, I did go back and, and I went to school at MSU. And I did get a degree in Spanish, but my main degree is exercise science and, uh, and nutrition, which is very different from a Spanish background as well. But they actually go together really well with what I do now, which is kind of, kind of interesting.

Christine: Yeah. I love that about people's stories where you have these things and you're like, well, I love this thing. And I also love Spanish and it seems like it might be helpful. So I'm going to go ahead and grab that out of my toolkit. And then I love this thing. And I had this experience and you're like, What am I going to make with this?

Christine: And then like 10 years later, you're like, Oh, this is the thing. 

Julie: Actually makes sense. Yeah. 

Christine: So you had this experience traveling and I also, I really love and resonate with this idea of like how we think we see the world. And again, like having this very similar background to you growing up in Montana. We grew up like five hours apart from each other, but very similar settings.

Christine: And like, I also had this idea that like the world was out there and like, there has to be something. Else I know there is like I've seen the magazines I'm obsessed over National Geographic and, and, um, like, very much was also similarly like cultures. It wasn't just that I wanted to go to South America or something, but I really was like, I'm curious about.

Christine: Aztec Inc and Mayan culture, Aboriginal culture, indigenous culture, like, I just. There was something there that was speaking to me that I really needed to understand. And so I think also having that, like, sense of connection to people and to land, like, set me out on a different path than maybe some travelers.

Christine: And I feel like perhaps that's the same for you as this. Just like real need to connect and understand. 

Julie: Yeah. That was a big part for me. I mean, you know, I think, you know, coming back to our, our roots and the way we're raised, you know, for me, it was always a really powerful subject, you know, learning about the stories of the Native Americans growing up in Montana.

Julie: It's a very huge part of our history here. And so as I learned about indigenous cultures in other countries, it was something that was very fascinating to me, you know, and, and actually I've had some really amazing experiences in Costa Rica where the timeline where the indigenous people are fighting for certain rights is, is happening.

Julie: It's more fresh than it is in our country where it's a little bit, the stories are a little bit older and a lot more. Change has happened. And so these types of things really fascinated me. A lot of it had to do with getting to know people, you know, it was, I'll never forget one conversation I had with this.

Julie: I was in the salt flats in Bolivia and we were doing this multi day Jeep tour. And this was back when I was in college and I was still kind of just exploring the place. And we picked up this woman who needed a ride across the salt flat. And she was, she was talking to me about how we were, we had stopped on this little island where there were some people selling artisan crafts, and there was some people that were selling toilet paper for the restroom and that, you know, little things that people were doing to try and make a living off of a little bit of tourism that was going by.

Julie: And this woman was talking to me about how she wanted to do something and how she made these textiles. And, and it was just so interesting to me that this woman opened up to me. And this was later on as I was starting to learn Spanish. And so this was a very powerful moment for me where all of a sudden I was hearing the stories from the local who was telling me of her challenges and the things that she wants to do.

Julie: And, you know, and she sees, she was, it was like, we were looking at the world from two different points, but similar eyes of like, there's more out there. I want to do more. Like, what can I do? And we were having this little conversation and it was a, That moment was more lasting to me than the photos I took of the salt flats, which were also really cool, but it was just, it was really powerful for me to just sit and actually have someone share some of their stories with me.

Christine: Okay, that's it. I hope you have loved seeing how important early travel experiences can be in our lives by shaping our worldview, creating understanding and opening new doors or revealing an unexpected path for our lives. Oh, I just remembered probably one of my favorite stories from a travel guest. I don't have the clip here, but I promise it will be worth it for you to go back and listen to my conversation with Alexis Bowen.

Christine: She's the founder of Elsewhere by Lonely Planet. I was smiling ear to ear when I interviewed her as she shared how she came to be standing in customs in London as a solo traveler at the age of 13 with a case of wine. I'm not going to share any other spoilers. This is such a fun moment and it's also a great conversation to be inspired by her work at Elsewhere.

Christine: Okay, that is really it. Be sure you share these mashups with anyone who might be looking to learn more about how travel experiences can shape your lives, the importance of programs like Semester at Sea and Outward Bound, and the relationships formed as we host or are exchange students. Next week, we share one more mashup and feature guests who share how their travels and their companies are supporting the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

Christine: Until then, enjoy your journey.

Christine: Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journeywoman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes.

Christine: I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www. souloftravelpodcast. com. I am so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome. I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect.

Christine: You can find me on Facebook at soul of travel podcast, or follow me on Instagram either at she. sojourns or at soul of travel podcast. Stay up to date by joining the soul of travel podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the journey woman community and its resources for women travelers over 50.

Christine: I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician Carly Eduardo, CEO of Convergente. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.