Soulful Mashup: Tourism Supporting the UN Sustainable Development Goals

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a special summer mashup of guests focused on specific Sustainable Development Goals and how travel can support them coming to life.

Content Advisory: Celeste's interview mentions a sensitive cultural practice experienced by some young women. Please listen with care.

Guests highlighted include:

· Carla Campos

· Celeste Mergens

· Jo Hendrickx

· Jamila Mayanja

· Elkie Nicholas

Join Christine for this special soulful mashup episode.

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Soul of Travel Podcast is nominated for a Women in Podcasting Award in the Travel Category! You can vote for Soul of Travel as your favorite travel podcast from August 1 through October 1. Click the banner on our website to cast your vote!

To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

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Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Carla Campos, Celeste Mergens, Jamila Mayanja, Jo Hendrickx, Elkie Nicholas (Guests). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by Carly Oduardo.

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel, Women's Wisdom and Mindful Travel. I'm your host Christine Weinbrenner Eirich. Each week you'll hear me having soulful conversations with women who are tourism professionals, trailblazers, and community leaders around the world. They share their personal and professional journeys to inspire you, and their stories teach you how to become a more conscious traveler, live life aligned with your values, and create a positive impact.

Christine: We are thought leaders, action takers, and heart centered change makers, and this is the Soul of Travel. In August on Soul of Travel, we are sharing a few soulful mashup episodes on different topics that will feature clips from past guests. Our guests will be sharing about family travel and traveling with kids, the impact that early travel experiences had on their lives and careers, and how Soul of Travel guests are supporting the UN Sustainable Development Goals with their work.

Christine: It is always fun to look back at some of the common threads shared by our guests. And this is a unique opportunity to bring them together for you in a way that we hope adds even more value. Each of these topics touches on the importance of travel in our lives, how travel connects us to the world and shapes us into global citizens.

Christine: And I'm especially excited to share the many ways our guests work to support the UN SDGs. I'll be sharing an article about that this month too. So make sure you're on our email list. Just visit our website, www. souloftravelpodcast. com and sign up there. I'd also like to share that Soul of Travel Podcast is nominated for a women in podcasting award in the travel category.

Christine: You can vote for Soul of Travel as your favorite travel podcast from August 1st until October 1st. You can visit www. womeninpodcasting. net I'll make sure I leave the link in the show notes in case you missed it. I will also be announcing a campaign to support the podcast and help us bring you these important conversations and continue to amplify the voices of women around the world in the tourism industry.

Christine: That's another great reason to be on our email list. It will be hosted on the amazing platform, ifundwomen. com. We are also seeking sponsors and have space for advertisers for season six. Just send me an email to connect at lotus sojourns. com. Okay, that's enough housekeeping. It's time to get to our summer mashup episode.

Christine: Here we go.

Christine: This soulful mashup features guests talking about the ways their work supports the UN sustainable development goals. The past few seasons, I have asked each guest to share the UN SDGs they support when they apply to join the podcast. And it has been a great way to look at the impact the guests are creating.

Christine: There are so many guests who could be a part of this episode, all of them really, and we couldn't narrow it down for just one episode. So this week you'll hear outtakes. From five of my past guests interviews. And next week I'll share even more. First up is a tremendous supporter of the podcast. And I'm happy to share a bit of her expertise again.

Christine: In this mashup, Carla Campos is the principal at tourism for purpose, where she provides practical data driven and strategic solutions to the challenges facing corporations, developers, businesses, executives, and tourism board. Intentionally integrating sustainability in day to day decision making. In our outtake from episode 133, Carla talks about how sustainable tourism is at its heart, finding a way to be responsible and have a positive impact.

Christine: Carla is a strong supporter of women's leadership in travel and tourism and believes that sustainability must serve as a pillar for operational excellence in travel and tourism. Her work primarily focuses on the 10. And now I'll let Carla share more.

Carla: When I got into the Sustainable Destination Management Program and I put a name to the kind of work that I wanted to be doing, which was sustainable tourism, though we were currently in a transition. In our industry at that point in time, because just a year or two earlier, people were talking about ecotourism, and there was this shift that was happening where people were realizing, wait, ecotourism kind of has a limited lens.

Carla: Let's talk about sustainable tourism. Um, and that's the encompassing of not just environmental conservation, but also that travel can positively impact economies. It could positively impact people and people's quality of lives and sort of that broadening of the understanding of what essentially responsible Travel is all about and responsible tourism is all about.

Carla: Um, and now we're seeing sort of a similar shift happening where people are starting to talk both from sustainability. Maybe we should be talking about regenerative travel. Maybe we should be talking about some, a bigger lens to see it through. And I think it all boils down to not necessarily the terms that we're using, but at the heart of it, what is it?

Carla: And at the heart of it, it's Finding a way to have a positive impact, finding a way to be responsible, whether, and you can take it to any industry, right? Like what's the name of it? If you're buying locally sourced products at the supermarket, well, that probably has a name, but it's just the essence of, of you being aware and cognizant about how the actions that you're taking in your day to day life have an impact on others.

Carla: And. And I mention it because I remember that shift going on early in my career where there was a lot of education about explaining to people why we were talking about sustainable travel, sustainable tourism, and not ecotourism. And back then, and very early in my career, I interpreted sustainable tourism to be very much a product oriented thing.

Carla: So, the development of a more sustainable tourism offering. And at that point, I used to work in USAID funded projects, World Bank initiatives, International Development Bank initiatives, where There was money being invested in destinations that I was working in, in order to diversify the kind of tourism offering that destination had.

Carla: So whether it be, um, in the Dominican Republic, where I lived for, for quite a bit of time, that the model is the all inclusive model of doing tourism. Um, and. 10 years ago, we were starting to talk about, well, how can people go beyond the all inclusive? How could people get beyond the doors of that hotel?

Carla: What are they going to do beyond the doors in the hotel in a, in a country whose tourism industry has not been structured to receive people beyond the doors of the hotel? Um, so I think that it, Again, this discovery process of what things have meant in my career at different point in times at the beginning of my career, it was very much a product oriented diversification of the tourism offering, and that's how I interpreted or at least found that I could have a role in sustainable tourism.

Carla: Later on, I realized, well, it's not just about the product. It's that the people that are making decisions need to be able to have a clear vision of the kind of tourism that they want for this space, and they need to be able to make decisions in a way that Is aligned with that vision, and that's where my specialty then became destination management organizations and helping, uh, put together essentially public private sector partnerships for the effective and sustainable management of destinations and bringing together those very different stakeholders to a table and finding ways in which they could communicate with each other.

Carla: That was effective and that would help everyone achieve these goals. So I, I then started interpreting sustainability as well. We need to have decision makers be able to be aligned and vision and have tourism in, in the backbone of the initiatives or the kind of products that are being developed in the destination.

Carla: And then I got to the, the, I would say like, The peak of those responsibilities, which is you're now responsible for making those decisions. I was no longer a consultant. Um, that was developing product. I was no longer a facilitator of public private partnerships for sustainable destination management. I had the responsibility of leading a destination and a destination like Puerto Rico.

Carla: That is a Let's a mature destination of its life cycle. Tourism isn't new to the island. Um, and and then that challenge I had to internally ask myself, Well, what does tourism mean in this role that I have when my responsibility isn't just developing product. My responsibility is also approving new products.

Carla: 300 room hotels that are going to get billed. My responsibility is negotiating with airlines, airlift to the destination. My responsibility is also negotiating with cruise line. Um, and for me, I then had to say, well, I need to ingrain sustainability within the day to day decision making, and that is sustainability for me.

Carla: So whether it was that my conversations and at the forefront of my conversation with the cruise lines, well, How can we expand home porting operations? Why? Because I want people to arrive to the island, not just visit the island on the day. So I, I was still talking about mass tourism. I was still talking about cruises, but I was talking about it.

Carla: Well, how, how can I make this a little more responsible and more beneficial to the environment and to the destinations. I got the cruise lines engaged in all of the relief efforts for the island through all the situations that we went through. The earthquakes, the hurricanes, and everything in between our partners, which was traditional tourism partners, The decisions we were making together had sustainability at the backbone.

Carla: When I would negotiate with, um, airlines, then we'd talk about, well, what kind of airlift do we want to get the kind of traveler that is going to be able to go all around the island, not to stay at the business hotels. I need to be talking to low cost carrier airlines too. I need to be figuring out how to get these airlines to travel, not just to San Juan, but to the other airports.

Carla: And that was sustainability for me. Um, with the hotels, it wasn't just about developing city hotels. It was like, well, a small town in Puerto Rico is not going to be able to build. A branded select service hotel, but I still want people to go there and I still want people to be able to get to know that part of the island and for that part of the island to be integrated in the in the tourism sector.

Carla: So then what can we do in terms of lodging to get heads and beds over there, because that's the way to get butts in seats with the airlines. I need to increase beds in order to increase airlines what's my quickest way of doing it and that's where. We sort of entered into a very strategic partnership with, um, the short term rental platforms in order for us to be able to, um, recover tax money directly from the platforms in exchange for a very productive partnership that allows us to expand the inventory of rooms.

Carla: And we were able to double the amount of rooms in a period of time. Three years in the island, something that in 20 years hadn't been done, but you had to think outside that became sustainability for me. And that's why when I look at sustainability now, I don't think of that product development, or I don't think of the kind of experiences I want people to have.

Carla: I think of the fact that. All of these large travel and tourism corporations have the ability to make decisions and actually in my, in my book, the responsibility of making decisions in a way that is productive, constructive, that builds confidence. for these destinations that they serve and also builds for the business because economic sustainability is one of the three pillars.

Carla: So it's all about the bottom line as well. So I think that's how my, to answer your question, that's, that's how my view on sustainability has evolved. And that's why I think that in the space of my career, Where I've been able to have all those different roles and see it from so many different perspectives.

Carla: I, I understand that we need to be able to have people like you and me in the boardrooms to talk about day to day decision making that have to do with shareholder interest that have to do. With bottom line productivity. Well, you can make responsible decisions while safeguarding all of that. And that's where I really see my role in the future and sort of where I'm where I'm I'm taking my career because they're all they need.

Carla: They're always needs. need to be people that do that kind of product development, which is what we think of when we think of sustainable travel, but we need more people like you and me making executive decisions where they need to be made and in a responsible and in a responsible way. 

Christine: I'm usually a bit starstruck when I connect with my guests.

Christine: These are my A listers, and I was nervous when I first approached Celeste Murgans about joining me for a conversation. However, as usual, we dived right into a soulful conversation as we prepared for the podcast, and all the nerves disappeared. Celeste is the founder of Days for Girls, A global nonprofit working to eliminate the stigma and limitations associated with menstruation.

Christine: In episode 50, she shares how she is working to support STGs 1 and 5 by creating safety for girls by partnering with communities worldwide and sharing stories of menstrual quality. Today, Days for Girls has reached more than 3 million women and girls in 145 countries. When I first understood the global challenges impacting women without access to menstrual health and supplies, I knew this was work I wanted to support, and I have looked for ways to tie supporting menstrual equity into my experiences with Lotus Sojourns and here at the podcast.

Christine: I'll turn it over to Celeste to share more, and I hope you'll take the time to listen to the rest of her episode and learn more about Days for Girls, and also find her book, The Power of Days.

Celeste: Oh, it's so powerful. One, we know from data that they've been stand up for the women not to be mocked and for girls not to be shamed at the classroom. We have one leader in Kenya, who just to give the degree of the shame, who didn't stand up because she had a stain on her clothing, and her teacher considering that she was, you Um, not respecting him, slapped her, and then, um, she had, of course, this menstrual stain, and so she started trying to use pieces of pages that didn't work.

Celeste: She did hang in there and do her best, but sometimes the consequences are they drop out. Some, sometimes I've met one woman that's a leader of Days for Girls who was called, um, Red Drop. She, who has red drops from then on Nickname, because what happened when she was young woman and she now had three children.

Celeste: So, so the consequences are long lasting so if you reverse it, and the men know what this is instead of shaming and be part coming part of that teasing. Instead, they are part of defending and saying this is important. The other great thing I just had a message come in a few days ago. That someone was sharing that the men who start their conversation with what is strength in their community and what does it mean to be a strong man for your family and what kind of future do you want?

Celeste: And one kind of strength is health. And then it goes into you're invited to be a man who knows it's called men who know, and then it talks about health periods, puberty health and, um, and hygiene and all sorts of things. And that what happened is. Several of the men said that they decided that if they were going to be strong leaders in their community, they had to go start at home.

Celeste: So one apologized for beating his wife and committed to supporting her, and one wife had said, I don't want you to go. He was a headmaster. I don't want you to go. I want you to be home this weekend. And went after he'd been there the next weekend. She goes, I want you to go because this past week has been so much better.

Celeste: And he went on to teach his. Hey, we got to talk about periods. So having everyone be part of the conversation is, is such a powerful thing. And we have seen leaders like the Alice, who's the one that was slapped. Um, she went on to found the days for girls enterprise and employees. More than a dozen people providing thousands of kids and more importantly, or just as importantly, the education for her community, it's a really powerful thing to put that leadership and it should be everyone.

Celeste: This is a big shift we're asking, but it's one that will make a huge difference and one that can happen in our lifetime. 

Christine: Yeah, um, that was definitely something I wanted to pull into this conversation as well, is that, I mean, there are so many issues that are kind of feeling insurmountable in this moment, and I love that when you speak about Days for Girls, um, like, one, your passion is infectious, and I really appreciate that, but two, that There really does seem a possibility that we can see the end of this, like, we can be a part and witness this journey to completion.

Christine: And I think that that feels like a great thing to be a part of right now. Especially because we really want something that we can hold on to that feels tangible and available and so impactful for so many women, and then not just women, but that ripples out into families and communities and countries.

Christine: So, I think it's just such an amazing thing to be a part of and to think about. 

Celeste: You're so right. That's one of my favorite things about this and what gets me up early in the morning to get started again. There are so many things that are hard to change and menstrual equity and all the benefits is not one of them.

Celeste: We can achieve this in our life and that something so simple can have such powerful impact. You're, you know, you're spot on. It benefits. The whole family, the whole community, the whole country, and our whole world for everyone to have the fullness of their confidence. You know what, can I share with you a message that came in, like four weeks ago now, man.

Celeste: Okay, we're gonna need the power of the glasses here. Okay. Um, it's so in Malawi. So in Malawi there is a practice called dusting off. This is a ritual that happens to when you become, start menstruating. So as soon as you have your first period, you need to be ritually cleansed and they do this as trigger alert.

Celeste: This is hard to hear, um, but there's good news. Um, there, a man called a hyena is hired by the family to sexually purify her. She's blindfolded and attacked. Because she started her first period, making her vulnerable to infection, to loss, and to um, to a lot of um, pregnancy, right? Pregnancy as well. So here's one of the highest rates of childhood, marriage, and pregnancy in the world.

Celeste: So that community has Days for Girls leader, the first lady there, is committed to shifting up the minister of gender and health and education. I'll partner with Days for Girls to take on that country having it. So this is one of the leaders in a really remote area. That's hard to get to. Here's what she says happened.

Celeste: As a team packed up to go after a kickoff event at Chilambando primary school, a group of boys lingered around. One of the girls that had attended our ambassador health training and have received the Supreme kit was walking past the boys. Malendia Katundu. You have received a package. One of the boys called out his friends, jeered rudely.

Celeste: The girl was not embarrassed. Instead, she faced them and said to their face, Nalandira Gumani, yes, I have received. I'll proudly carry it without shame because I learned today that menstruation is not something to be ashamed of. I need to embrace it and be proud of it because I'm wonderfully made. She then walked away a victory smile on her face.

Celeste: This made our team so proud to know that we had made a huge impact on the life of a girl who could be so brave. So not just her days back, not just the health and the dignity, but the confidence to know her own strength and to embrace every part of her being. When it's something that's taboo and that shifts, the rest of the issues are easy to surmount next.

Christine: Jo Hendricks is the founder of Travel Without Plastic, where she is supporting travel providers in eliminating single use plastics and creating the shift towards more sustainable products on a larger scale in the travel and tourism industry. Her work supports 15. This is a conversation that comes up a lot on the podcast, and I am grateful for the wisdom Joe shares to help us better understand the action we can take to create the necessary change.

Jo: If you look back. When I was in the health and safety role, um, possibly I actually even instigated hotels to use single use plastic because you couldn't use glass and things like that around a swimming pool or on a beach, because if it broke, people would cut their feet because they're walking around without, you know, shoes on around a swimming pool.

Jo: So originally, if you, if you go way back. Um, a lot of single use plastic was used for health and safety reasons in hotels anyway, at least because the reusable options back then, and I'm looking at, you know, 2001, 2002 weren't very good quality. So you would have a reusable plastic glass and it would, they'd scratch a lot in the dishwashers and they just looked awful people didn't want to drink from them.

Jo: So that there was a lot of reasons that single use was the choice. Um, and. We, if you look, if you fast forward now, there are lots of really good reusable options. And so this is where we, we trace it backward people and do exactly what you said. Why at this moment in time, do you believe that single use plastic is the right thing for your business?

Jo: And a lot of the time, it's not a logical thought process. So interestingly, um, we find a lot of hotels that say we have, we can't put reusable slippers. in the guest bathroom, uh, for instance, or the guest bedroom, because they would think it's unhygienic because somebody else has worn them before. So my answer to that would be, but you're going to launder the slippers, they will go through a laundry process in the same way that the dressing gown or the bathrobe, whichever way you want to describe it, and the towels.

Jo: And everything else that people will put into, you know, certain parts of the body that will touch those items, they're going through the same laundry process. So why is the towel that's gone through that laundry process hygienic, and the slippers that have gone through the same laundry process, why are they not hygienic?

Jo: And you kind of see people go, Oh. I never thought of it like that. Or reusable straws is a similar thing. Um, usually they say it's because somebody else has used it before me, but that would be the case with the knife and the fork and the spoon and the ceramic cup and everything else that goes into our mouth.

Jo: Um, there's, you do, if you use reusable straws, you have to clean them properly. There are some like countertop cleaners that have a really high emitting sort of, um, frequency that can dissolve all of them. You know, anything that may be inside the straw. So you're not expected to. wash them one at a time.

Jo: So there's, there's really these illogical reasons behind it. And once we can get to that, and then actually say it's really, it's our way of thinking and people's behavior that we maybe need to change. So another good example are the single use sachets, you know, ketchup or mayonnaise or something. And especially in the, during the pandemic, there was a a wide agreement amongst many hotels that they were more hygienic because they were single use.

Jo: But actually, if you watch how people interact with the sachet, because you have to go through the, you know, the thing to find which one you want, and then you can't open it, and you pass it to your, you know, your partner, can you open it? No, let's try another one. Can't even open it with my teeth. I'll put that back.

Jo: And you think, my God, that's That's not hygienic! You'd be much better having a large bottle that's easy to serve and your staff clean it between uses because they're not going to clean all those sachets. And then you just see the cogs going and people thinking actually, yeah, well, why are we thinking so illogically about things?

Jo: And take them on their own journey. And sometimes there are reasons that they may need to carry on using single use items, whether it's single use plastic or not because of their Their customer demographic or what's available to them or the cost, or maybe there isn't a very good waste infrastructure for them to dispose of what the alternative would be in those things.

Jo: So we take them through all of those potential, um, you know. ways that they need to make the decision through that hierarchy, almost kind of starting at what is the, what are the changes that you could make that would either take waste out completely? Where could you implement reusable or refillable options?

Jo: If you can't do that, what's the next step? And just kind of go through that hierarchy until we get to the very end, where we might even have to say, right, for the time being, the best course of action that you can take is make sure that these items, whatever they're made of, don't become pollution. So we're disposing of them responsibly.

Jo: So we sort of meet them where they're at because we can't. You can't force people to do things when they're not ready for it, but if we can take them through that logical journey and then get them to suggest what would work for them, based on all the ideas that we can throw at them from the experience we've got and what we see working for other hotels, then we generally kind of forge a path that works for them.

Jo: That works for each company. 

Christine: Yeah, that seems like such a, an amazing process. And like you said, it's, it's pretty empowering because they really are coming up with the solutions with you or understanding the problem with you. And it's not just, uh, kind of, uh, yeah, very directed approach. It's not you just saying, here's what you should do, no reasons why, or maybe reasons why that they don't resonate with, or maybe aren't applicable to them.

Christine: It really is helpful, I think, to do that. And then once you start, um, like examining one area of your business in that way, it might also open the door for you to question Other things. And, um, also, you know, it becomes and having an environmental impact. But I think a lot of times people would be surprised that it has a financial impact that you actually can Make choices that will be better for your bottom line.

Christine: And I think a lot of times people think it will only be the opposite when they're considering more environmentally friendly alternatives. 

Jo: Yeah, definitely. And it can actually be more expensive depending on your mindset and your approach to it. So if your, if your approach as a business is, I'm going to take away single use plastic straws or single use plastic stirrers, and I'm going to replace them all with single use straws.

Jo: Bamboo or single use, whatever the wood that is going to be more expensive because generally speaking, they are ever so slightly more expensive. But if your approach is, I'm going to take away the things that really don't add any value to the guest experience. And I'm not going to replace them because we don't need them.

Jo: Or the things that some people need, we'll make them available on request instead. So this is a great way to do the hotel amenities, which not everybody needs. I mean, I go to hotels and I see they still have, you know, the thing to shine your shoes and you go out and you look at the people that stay in the hotel and there's not a single person with a shoe on, they've all got flip flops.

Jo: And you think, why are you still putting this in there? It's these habits, you know, we've always done it. We've done it for 30 years. Like, well, maybe we could do an exercise where we have a look at how many amenities you have and how many you consume and what the unit cost is. And we work that out and we see which of these are actually adding to the fact that you are creating lots of waste.

Jo: And look then at your customer demo, your customer demographic. Now it's changed a lot since then. You know, or people are coming in trainers if they've got closed shoes. They don't need to have the shoe shine. So getting them to just, yeah, look at those habits that are fueling single use waste. And that's when, when they don't just want to make a straight replacement single use for single use, that's when we can start to see the cost reductions.

Jo: But if they've got this mindset of, no, we must replace it with something similar, but from a different material, then probably their costs will go up. So it's very much dependent on their approach, whether they're going to save money or not. And we try to take them through that journey as well. 

Christine: Jamila Mayenja is the CEO and founder of Smart Girls Uganda Foundation.

Christine: where she focuses on SDG 5, gender equality. Each year, they train and support 150 to 200 young girls and women in their economical programs and train 20 to 30 peer educators to lead community development initiatives engaging 25 to 30, 000 young people. Their vision is to see a nation where girls have self esteem, are engaged, have the ability to make decisions, and create visionary change.

Christine: Their program, Smart Bags for Girls, offers comprehensive menstrual hygiene kits, which are backpacks with educational programming designed by and for girls in Uganda. As I mentioned with Celeste Morgan's episode, this is a type of project I look to find when creating trips. I meet with these local organizations to find ways to engage with them and support them during my travel experience.

Christine: It's been a while since I spoke with Jamila back in episode 51, and she's continued to build her impact for women and communities in Uganda.

Jamila: And it starts from our families. It starts from where we grew up in the family. It's a taboo for a girl to talk about menstruation periods here in Uganda. So by the time a girl grows up in Uganda. Oh, by the way, I'm saying here in Uganda, but I'm in Ghana, so when it came out, really, and so it's in my head because I'm from Uganda, so what I, it comes from the family.

Jamila: When I grew up, it's, it's quite a taboo to actually talk about menstrual health. It has to be a bedroom talk. Yeah, the stigma around just even openly talking about, uh, menstrual, your menstrual hygiene with even your parents. Some rural areas here, the, the mother has to look for what we call an auntie, so we call them a singer.

Jamila: Or they wait for the, for the counselors where the girls are going to school to actually start the topic. Yet, this is not a choice. This is something that has to come. When the girl's body is ready. So for me, when I started my period, I don't even blame my mom at all. Uh, it's just because she was also raised that way.

Jamila: The person who's had that talk with me was a house help who gave me toilet paper to use, and she didn't even tell me that that toilet paper will later fill up and I'll need to change it. Here. I go to school with toilet paper and I end up mapping my dress and being bullied. All throughout primary school before that girl who had her dress and mapped also the table.

Jamila: So that means that bullying comes from the roots of the stigmatization, the lack of menstrual equity that comes even from just within the families that girls come from. So when you add the stigma, stigmatization, the poverty, the stigma, And also the fact that the community, local leaders and the government at large are not really taking this issue as an importance.

Jamila: Girls end up staying out of school just because they fear to be bullied in school. And or they don't access what to use when they're in this time of the month in school. So it becomes, Abandoned for them to be in school, they would rather be at home in their own bedrooms hidden until those five to eight days are done.

Jamila: Hence they are missing out on school. And the fact when they start missing out school early, the chances of them staying in school in higher levels is quite, quite very low. So that leads to Early sex, early marriages, um, teenage pregnancies. So, this small fact that you need to have a talk with your young girl is leading, um, uh, multiplying the chances of having bigger problems, gender based violence.

Jamila: So, it just starts from us breaking that equity and making sure it's balanced and removing away the poverty. So, yeah, so I'm too passionate and I can go on and on. 

Christine: No, I'm grateful and I'm equally passionate, which is why I immediately resonated with you when I heard you speaking, um, I, I, I believe. Really that universally this is issues that we need to look at because I know when I grew up, we, I mean, we had a little bit of conversation in our school about what menstruation would be what that would mean for a girl, but it was very diluted and it didn't actually tell me anything about.

Christine: Like how I was going to feel in that moment, how I was going to manage that, uh, what kind of, um, products I would need, um, how to use the products, any of that. And so there's still a lot of, um, confusion and I can also really resonate with. not really being bullied at school, but definitely being embarrassed if a product leaked or something like that.

Christine: And that you felt personal shame, you were definitely teased. I do know there were girls that maybe if they had an unfortunate incident, that that would carry on with them clear until high school, that People would mock them for that experience. Um, and then also when you commented about there being easy access to condoms and birth control, but not pads and tampons.

Christine: And I remember also in college having that same thought, like, I can either pay my food bill or my phone bill or my electric bill or buy the book I need for school. But if I do that, I can't buy menstrual care products. And so like, I think we need to be doing a better job. As a global society at addressing this issue.

Christine: Um, and I have three daughters and so I have really early on, like, because I had you know one and the next the next they were very engaged with, like, the birthing process and and learning about bodies that way and we've tried to create an open dialogue, but 12 year old. Some of that body shame and stigma and things starting to come into her from outside sources.

Christine: And so it's just relighting that knowing that these are the conversations that are going to be really important for her and her peers. And so I'm really grateful when I meet someone like you who is advocating, who is working to have these hard conversations and who really realizes that, like you said, this is kind of a, a step forward.

Christine: Seems small, but yet it, it just exponentially grows in what it allows for in the future. I wanted to talk about you. I know you say you have, um, this kind of bottom up holistic approach to the way you create education and your programs. Can you talk about what that means to you and how that serves the people that you work with?

Jamila: This is something I learned when I traveled to the U. S.

Jamila: Um, and it was through the fellowship. Um, it's called the Mandela Washington fellowship for young African leaders. So I was taken under the business truck. Um, Um, for, um, For six weeks at Dartmouth university. So we learned something called design thinking. So, you know, how we design. You've had such a problem.

Jamila: In the community. And right away, you think of a solution. So the bottom up is really to design with them. You design with the beneficiaries really to make sure you coming up with the right solution. And that's what I do with all the programs that I've done. I keep them refining them within implementation.

Jamila: So, for example, when I had first found out when I went through my own issue, my own body shaming and my own, uh, maestro bullying, um, when I went to secondary school. Um, I went to an all girls school, but I loved that school so much because it helped me build my self esteem. Um, I was with girls from all sizes, shapes, darks, colors, skins, and it felt like a safe space for me.

Jamila: So my work started from that time. So when I left, I used, I used to do a lot of work for girls and women, but when I reached campus, I noticed more girls were going through worse situations. I was actually privileged for the lifestyle I had. So I went on, I didn't know by then before I actually traveled for YALI that I was actually doing the design thinking.

Jamila: I've kept on always asking beneficiaries and the people that I work with and the women that I help, what would you need? So with them, I designed a solution. So with The menstrual part exactly at, I first held an event called the father daughter dance to fundraise for reusable pads. Cause at that time, there was some of the girls that I had talked to, all they needed was access to a pad to use during their menses instead of using cloth and toilet paper.

Jamila: And remember I had gone through the same issue that I had ever used toilet paper and it's not safe. So I said, I didn't have so much money. I decided to first fundraise for an event. And, um, so that I would fund raise money to buy usable parts. I did this for a number of years and then I went for yearly.

Jamila: I created, um, a lot of, I created attraction when I applied. When I came back from yearly, when it, what, the more I learned about design thinking, it asked me to always go back and understand if the interventions I've done are actually working. So it led me to go and ask the young women, young girls. I had actually given reusable parts, um, that had come out from the event of the father daughter dance.

Jamila: if they were actually staying in school. So this showed well, the research I did, some had actually succeeded and stayed in school, but some were still out of school. And this was a reason, by the time some girls can't even afford a usable pad, they don't have access to how to carry those pads. They don't have access to water when they successfully carry the reusable pads and go to school.

Jamila: Um, some schools do not have the time period within using those reusable pads is quite little to wash them and hang them. Sometimes they are the same, so it was still an inconvenience for them to be at school while having these usable pads. That, um, they would rather use them from home. So that's how I innovated the smart bag.

Jamila: So, um, like, so you see the process was from asking, and then I first did that, first did the first prototype and still tested it, but still even with the first prototype, some girls were still staying out of school. Then I improved it to another prototype. That was the recycled smart bag and still was still some girls staying out of school.

Jamila: Now I improved it even later to the recycled solar smart bag. So. Um, when I mean bottom to up, it's actually holistic. 

Christine: I love that. Uh, I think it's really aligned with, um, a lot of times I talk about community based tourism and, um, that is similar where, um, you have to ask the needs of the community and build tourism around those needs.

Christine: Um, and so with community based tourism, you ask The people in the community, how can tourism serve them? How can them benefit them? And we've had similar conversations on this podcast about philanthropy and philanthropic efforts, where a lot of times people step in with this solution that they think is geared towards meeting the need, but they never asked the question of what is needed.

Christine: And so they end up sometimes creating a structure that serves. A need that isn't truly, um, what, what would be best serving for the community. So I love that you are using that design thinking to ask the questions, to know the real problems and then find solutions that actually create impact. And then also, um, creating one solution, seeing how that works and letting it evolve because a lot of times people maybe have either pride or limited time and so they just do one level and like, well I solved the problem that's good enough.

Christine: But without following up to ensure that that is actually is actually working and is adequate. Yeah, so I love that that it was kind of it has been this continually evolving project with smart bags for girls. So you mentioned there's the rewashable products, but then there's also the bag that they can carry them in.

Christine: And I've heard that as well as curious about the solar that you were talking about. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And what does the solar allow for Jamila? Why is that important? 

Jamila: So when I first designed the bag, um, was to have, um, a component where the girls can carry their unused usable parts that have been provided by us or any other partner.

Jamila: So a place that is safe where they can carry out. I'm going to show you a little bit. Um, then when they get to school and they don't have time. All the access to water or a place to wash this pad in the bag. There's also a component where they can keep their used reusable pads. So it's like you wouldn't imagine a girl is carrying her reusable pads in here so that when they get home they can wash them.

Jamila: So while we're implementing the first bag that we did was absolutely cloth and it just had those two components because that's what that's what I was first solving to give them convenience. To be able to use the reasonable part. So I noticed it being cloth and Uganda being a very rainy season when they would walk to school because they were quite a distance and the content will get wet.

Jamila: So that's when we also thought of using. getting recycled plastic waste and embed it into the bag to make it waterproof. Oh, by the way, there's just a component where they could carry their books and everything, and it's quite big. So later on, when we're doing research, the recycled smart bag worked wonders, because it was perfect.

Jamila: It was waterproof, and it was, you know, Amazing. But then when they, some girls, when they go back home, they would, um, them being the girls, they would first do a lot of housework in the evening. So by the time they would finish their housework, it was already dark. And most of the girls, most of the, most of where these girls come from, they would They come from rural areas and their toilets are detached from the main house, so they need to walk quite a distance.

Jamila: So at night, when you have a heavy flow, they couldn't access the wash facilities because it's dark and they don't have lighting. So the solar panel was to really, it charges a detachable light that helps the girls. Um, access toilets at night, but most importantly, late at night, when they don't have lighting at their homes, they could use them to read their books.

Christine: Elke Nicholas is the co founder of Trees for Travel. In episode 89, she shared about her journey from being a blissfully ignorant business traveler to realizing the impact of her personal carbon footprint and how she knew she wanted to learn more, educate others, and create a platform for easy action for travelers.

Christine: And as of the end of 2023, Trees for Travel has planted over a million trees. Trees for Travel also aims to support up to 13 of the 17 UN SDGs. where they believe they can have the most impact.

Elkie: I feel very positive about the future. I don't think it's easy. There is a lot to do. There's a lot of change, but I think the more we talk about it, the more people who know what they can do. I think people, I think, I think, you know, 99 percent of people want to do good and want to do the right thing. But it's just that we don't always know where to start.

Elkie: And that is, you know, that's the thing. And that's kind of where I hope Trees for Travel will, you know, we've really focused on an industry where we feel we can make a difference. And, um, yeah, We also wanted to make it really simple and, and I hope that's what we have delivered. Sorry. I talk a lot. Don't it?

Elkie: Once you get me going, I can't 

Christine: stop. That's okay. That's one of the great things about these conversations is that I, I do get to talk to people who are so passionate about what they do. And I think that that's, I think that's amazing. I think that's. That is how we are able to create the most impact is when people are really passionate about the work they're doing.

Christine: And like you mentioned with Greta and like the, the voice that, that comes through her and the way she's able to share and the way people listen to her, because it's just such a part of who she is, however that came to be. In her, like you can tell and, um, what I love about her and, and her being so young as she begins to share this message is that, like, my oldest daughter is 12 now, but I think she was probably 9 or 10 and, um, when Greta was in the U.

Christine: S. and she spoke in Denver and my oldest daughter heard on the radio. We were driving her to school and she's like, she's here right now. Can we go? I said, absolutely. I'll drop your sisters off at school and we'll head into Denver to hear her. And she's like, I can't believe she's a child and look how many people are here to listen to her.

Christine: And this, this outdoor, you know, stadium that we were in, um, or garden was, was just packed. And she, she couldn't believe that adults would listen to her. To kids, which was a huge thing. I think just for her to witness witness, like the value of what she may have to share because she was able to see this other person share what they believed in.

Christine: And and then she just she just. Was so caught up in the, the community aspect of it and everybody being there together and then the, the, the hope and, you know, also disheartened by like this problem, but also just something about that. youthfulness that allows you, like, breathe into life the possibility.

Christine: Like, I guess you haven't been shut down enough times yet to, to know or to feel like it's not possible. But it was, it was really powerful. I'm really grateful that we were able to have that experience, because I think it really shifted. How she sees the world and how she understands what people can do and that people are actually trying to do something together.

Christine: I think a lot of times it does feel really daunting because we feel like it's just us against this huge problem that seems insurmountable. But when you see a community together like that and are a part of a movement, then it helps it to feel like There might be something possible. 

Elkie: Absolutely.

Elkie: Absolutely. Yeah. No, really. It's really, I think it's just such an exciting time. You know, I don't think, uh, we've ever had such a, a powerful movement that's happening. You know, there's so, I mean, so many people now get it and want to be involved. And I think that's brilliant. So, you know, we got to keep going.

Christine: You mentioned that you are, um, a serial entrepreneur. And so at the beginning of, um, 2020, uh, before the pandemic, or as it kind of, I guess, Landed, arrived, became known to us. You had actually were starting another business. So can you talk to us a little bit about how that came about and then your transition into trees for travel and what created that shift for you?

Elkie: So I'm going to go back to kind of the beginning of 2019, actually, because I, first of all, I went on a very, a lifelong dream trip. Um, I went to India for the first time and somebody who's really into yoga, that's a very important place to go to. So, and when I went to India, I was actually, I was actually so sad.

Elkie: To see how much rubbish there was everywhere. And that was, if you like, that was for me a kind of a first real kind of wake up call with regards to sustainability and, you know, and I don't know, it just, it's just really shocked me. And. I just thought, you know, I was thinking, how can, how can we change this?

Elkie: You know, that's where you start questioning when you see, you know, what's really going on. And during that year, so I, so I went to India and then, you know, so for me and already, as I said, Greta had already, you know, I was already following what she was doing. I just, I came back and Nico and I were discussing about this idea that we had about this business that would, um, allow travelers to choose a vacation based on weather.

Elkie: So, you know, you know that you've got a vacation, um, from this state to this state and you wanted to kind of make sure that when you went away that you would have good weather, you know, because we've been on a holiday and then arrive. Once a year and arrived and the weather's been really crap and it's so disappointing or, you know, if you were expecting to like the beach or whatever.

Elkie: And so, this new website was going to be called sunsearcher. And of course, because it was weather related. We were doing a lot of research on weather and weather data and all this kind of stuff. And of course it was very, it was very apparent. This is all, this, this all related to climate change. So it was like, there is no way we can, there's no way we wanted to launch this type of travel service without including sustainability, you know, In a big way.

Elkie: And, and because I, you know, was really delving into this, um, subject, um, I suddenly noticed as well that there was so much talk about trees in other products. You know, you, I'd buy, wanted to buy sweatshirt at somebody, somewhere, and they would say, oh, you buy sweatshirt, we'll plant you a tree. And I just kind of thought, hmm, okay, what's all this tree, you know, What is it with this tree business?

Elkie: Um, and so I then spent pretty much, pretty much six months to year just diving into papers and, you know, and science behind it. it was very clear that trees are actually our best carbon technology. There isn't anything out there yet that is as powerful as trees. And so I said to, uh, Nico, I said, right, do you know what we need to, um, we need to basically plant trees with every booking that somebody makes on our, on our, on our website.

Elkie: So anyway, as the discussion was going, literally a week later, as we were kind of thinking how we were going to integrate the trees into the booking system and so forth, the pandemic arrived and we went into lockdown and so we thought okay well this isn't a good time to launch a travel product seeing as all the planes are grounded um and so we decided that maybe um this was a good time to kind of reach out to all of our contacts in the travel industry and to just kind of talk to them introduce this idea.

Elkie: that we had and see what they think. Um, see what they thought. And actually everybody that we spoke to said they absolutely love this idea of, you know, connecting trees to travel. Um, and so as the pandemic continued, you know, like, All of us, I think all over the world, we thought, Oh, this is probably only going to be a few, few weeks, you know, or maybe a couple of months and then it'd be over.

Elkie: Um, it became very clear that this was gonna, you know, continue. So we thought, do you know what, we're going to spend this time to actually develop a product. That is, um, that allows trees to be integrated to other people's travel, um, websites, businesses, or whatever. So we can, you know, not just keep it for us, but do it for everybody, do it for the whole industry.

Elkie: And, um, and that was Nico who said, you know, we've got to do this for everybody. We've got, you know, this is our chance now. Um, there's kind of this pause in, in travel. Um, this is the moment we need to do this. So we spent then the next six months to a year developing this, doing all the kind of tech behind it.

Elkie: And, um, and then we started to reach out to lots and lots and lots of travel companies, um, all over the world, presenting our, our research, um, presenting the facts, the figures, and, um, and everybody seems to love it. You know, and it's since then, I just can't look back. I just, I just love this project. There is so much good, um, that we can do.

Elkie: Um, and I think the thing that was most important actually to me, um, having done all the research, is that keeping it simple. I think that was the key element in all of this. And that is really what kind of attracted me to it initially. You know, like I said to you, the first time I really heard about a tree being associated product is there was a company that had a sweatshirt and they said with every sweatshirt we'll plant a tree.

Elkie: And I thought we need to do that kind of thing in travel. And that's when we then came up with this concept of translating trips into trees. and really simplifying that whole process. Because of course, you know, I mean, you know, there have been kind of, if you like, carbon offsetting, um, options that have been presented on some airlines previous to the pandemic already.

Elkie: Um, but the problem is, We just can't relate to co2 in kilos or pounds or, you know, it just because it's not tangible. Um, it just doesn't mean anything to what doesn't mean anything to me and it doesn't I think it doesn't mean anything to most people and that's, I think that's one of the reasons why so many of our partners, and you know the people who were still presenting to now.

Elkie: They love what we're doing because we have just taken the complex complexity out of it. Um, but saying that at the same time, this is still a very complex object, you know, um, I mean, when we translate those trips to trees, there's a lot that goes on in the, in the background. Okay. So, deferral and GHG protocols, which are the kind of international recognized standards for calculating CO2.

Elkie: And, um, and then we also use, um, the basis we, we've kind of got an average of, um, an oak tree. Okay, so we use that calculation of the first 10 years of an oak tree where we say. a tree absorbs 164 kilos. So that's kind of how we do our calculations. Okay. Then the other thing as well, every single tree that we plant, okay, which is actually a sapling to begin with, is actually backed up by United Nations certified emissions reduction certificate.

Elkie: So it is actually that carbon that we say we offset is actually offset. as quickly as possible from those carbon credits, okay, because actually you can't really, you can't really, you can't offset travel just by planting a little sapling because that tree needs to grow. It's only once a tree is about 10, 20 years old, that they actually can start measuring the carbon properly from a tree.

Elkie: But of course, you know, um, so initially the trees kind of a symbol when we say trips to trees, but we are offsetting through the United Nations carbon credits that we back up with every single tree. So in fact, we're doing a double whammy, Um, which is also something that is really, really important. Um, you know, because we do need to keep planting trees.

Elkie: And, um, like I said earlier, you know, the science is there. Um, it's been proven and that's why. tree planting, tree growing, um, has kind of boomed, you know, and, um, and we need to keep planting and especially with, you know, with climate change, um, we're already feeling it, you know, all over the world, uh, in the U.

Elkie: S., you know, in Europe, um, you know, Australia, all over the world, there have been some awful, awful forest fires and, um, we are all feeling it. And we need to keep planting and we also, also still need to reduce emissions as much as we can. And that's where mindful travel, um, you know, comes into play. And, you know, that's something that we do also really talk about a lot, you know, about being responsible with travel.

Elkie: We love travel. And that's why, you know, um, that's why we're doing this. Because, um, You know, I think also the other realization is that people are not going to stop traveling. Um, we've always traveled, you know, um, since day one, man has always traveled and we will continue to travel. And while the technology is improving, um, you know, we have got to take those first steps.

Elkie: We've got to keep, we've got to do, everybody has to do a little bit. And that's why, you know, we, We all choose to travel because we know this is what everybody can do as they travel. 

Christine: Okay, that's it. Thank you for joining me to celebrate my guests and learn more about how travel can be a part of the solution to global, social, and environmental issues.

Christine: Be sure you share these mashups with anyone who might be looking to learn more about how to make their personal travel experiences more impactful, or with companies who are seeking information on the ways they can also support the UN Sustainable Development Goals. Next week, we share part two of this conversation, and you'll hear from more Soul of Travel guests about how they are supporting the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

Christine: Until then, enjoy your journey.

Christine: Thank you for listening to Soul of Travel presented by Journeywoman. I hope you enjoyed the journey. If you loved this conversation, I encourage you to subscribe and rate the podcast. Please share episodes that inspire you with others because this is how we extend the impact of this show. Learn more about each of my guests by reading our episode blogs, which are more than your average show notes.

Christine: I think you'll love the connection. Find our episode blogs at www. souloftravelpodcast. com. I am so proud of the way these conversations are bringing together people from around the world. If this sounds like your community, welcome. I'm so happy you are here. I am all about community and would love to connect.

Christine: You can find me on Facebook at Soul of Travel Podcast or follow me on Instagram either at she. sojourns or at Soul of Travel Podcast. Stay up to date by joining the Soul of Travel Podcast mailing list. You'll also want to explore the Journeywoman community and its resources for women travelers over 50.

Christine: I'd also like to share a quick thank you to my podcast producer and content magician, Carly Eduardo, CEO of Convergente. I look forward to getting to know you and hopefully hear your story.