The Deeply Healing Power of Travel with Breanne Kiefner

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 5: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Breanne Kiefner.

Utilizing her decades of experience in the adventure travel and hospitality businesses, Breanne sought to create something fundamentally different. Her company, Root Adventures,  has continued to evolve in line with Breanne’s own mental health journey. The recent travel pause provided the space for her to redefine the company with all that she learned along her own personal journey. Her history of PTSD, Dyslexia, and Depression continues to define her vision and leadership style as company CEO as she infuses vulnerability through all aspects of the company. Now with over two decades of experience in the industry, she is confident that this work is exactly what has been missing from adventure travel.

Christine and Breanne discuss:

· How important her mental health journey has been to shaping Root Adventures
· How her vulnerability has shaped the trips she offers and her company’s culture
· Determining brand values and intentionally attracting aligned clients
· How sustainability is built into Root Adventures and her unique approach

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Breanne Kiefner.

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

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A special thanks to this week’s partner, SafetyWing! Ever since I was traveling with my girls in 2023, I have added SafetyWing to my business and family travels to ensure we are covered when we need it. I hope you’ll choose their Nomad Insurance the next time you plan international travel! Be sure to click here for more information.

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• 14:33 [Ad] Untethered & Wanderwise: Female Travel Over 45
• 14:59 (Cont.) The Deeply Healing Power of Travel with Breanne Kiefner

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to soul of travel podcast. I'm Christine and I'm very excited today for this episode, which actually is going to be our last interview for season five. I'm joined by Brianne Kiefner, who is the founder of Root Adventures, and she is also near me here in Denver. So it's really exciting. We get to see each other in real life once in a while, but it's fun to be able to do this interview today and get to share your story with all of my listeners.

Christine: So welcome to the podcast.

Breanne: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. It's. It's so fun chatting with you because I think we both came to this travel world from such similar places and have found similar healing through it. So it's really nice to, to connect with you in that regard.

Christine: Yeah, thank you so much. That's one of the things that I really always appreciate about our connection is, um, that similarity and what feels like uniqueness, but that we kind of honor these same different aspects in travel that not everyone is always drawn to, although I'm so grateful. Now to see more and more people resonating with the kind of that power within travel and being more intentional about bringing it into the overall experience.

Christine: Before we get started and often running into our conversation, I just want to turn it over to you and let you share a little bit more about who you are and your business with my listeners.

Breanne: Um, again, I'm Brianne and I'm the founder of Root Adventures and Root Adventures is really focused on mindful travel. And I know that that word, especially. Since that new viral demure, mindful clip has come out is, is a word that's overused quite a bit, but I'm, I find trouble. Finding something to add a, adequately explain what we do here.

Breanne: And essentially what we do is we help people be present and pay attention. And that's our number one goal, because sometimes with travel, you get focused on the bucket list, you get focused on the checklist that you're missing all the things all the way through, you know, like traveling in an airport. It can be exhausting.

Breanne: It can be frustrating, but it can also be really beautiful. And there's space for learning in just the transport of that. So even before our travelers go on trip, we talk to them and remind them, Hey, pay attention. There's some really interesting things you'll learn in the airport alone. It's not about going to see the thing.

Breanne: It's about being where you are and being there wholly. Um, and we really try to implement that from the very beginning. We offer a eight week pre trip. And pre integration series and the whole idea behind that is to get people in the space of being present of paying attention and recognizing that mindfulness is a thing you practice.

Breanne: All day, every day. You don't necessarily have to sit in meditation for an hour every day. If it works for you. Great. For me personally, I don't do well with those sort of structures. Um, so remind, remembering when you're in traffic and somebody cuts you off, a big, deep breath can make that go from a momentary experience to.

Breanne: Or it could be an all day affair where you feel it in your body. And my goal is to allow us to experience that thing and let it go. Um, and with that eight week series, we implement our four pillars, which I know we'll get into a little bit more, but those are sustainability, equity and inclusion, community, and nature.

Breanne: So every week you will get a different email that you tells you practical ways and how to engage in those pillars. And then on trip, we have tour leaders that are focused on mindfulness and they come from a variety of backgrounds. Some of them are trained therapists. Some of them are focused on equity and inclusion and working in public health.

Breanne: Um, it's just the people that have. The ability to be curious, to be vulnerable and to be present. And they are there solely to help you be in that moment. So we use only local guides, but the tour leaders have a specialty of making you be fully yourself. Then after the trip, we do a six week.

Breanne: integration program, because we find that a lot of people have what I like to call a post travel hangover where, you know, you've had all these big, miraculous things happen to you. And you've had all these experiences and you've had this group of people that is just kind and vulnerable and open and accepting of who you are.

Breanne: And then you go back to the real world and everything's relatively the same and you feel really. Lonely and isolated. And like this experience is something you can never go back to. And though that may be true in a few ways, the, there are seeds of change that happen on trips like this, that change you for the rest of your life.

Breanne: And our job is to cultivate, cultivate those seeds to really give them the energy they deserve so they can flourish. And then hopefully my goal is no less than to change the world. You change one person, you help them change their entire community. And it just. It's exponentially beneficial. So that's really what we're trying to do that's pretty much root. I didn't talk too much about myself in there, but you get the idea.

Christine: Yeah, that's okay. And I love when people are like, what do you want your travel to do? And I'm like, you know, just world peace. That's all. And I think, yeah, I think I've had that conversation with like Beth Santos and a few other women like that. We, we like mock, we're like, yes, it's just world peace. That's all we're after.

Christine: But I also like you agree, you know, it's, It's the, that focus on yourself and the healing one person at a time and that ripple that actually is the thing that's so important. And when you witness that happen, it's, it's, uh, so beautiful. Like to, to just see that happen for someone, it's such a powerful experience.

Christine: And so I think it is possible as cliche as it might sound like that. I think that this is. What is really special about the kind of travel that you offer, and I'm so excited to talk more about it. Um, before we get there, I would love to hear a little bit about some of your early travel experiences. Um, did you travel a lot when you were younger or as a young adult?

Christine: And did you know that you wanted to head into this world and become a travel professional?

Breanne: I actually began, began traveling at about 24 years old. I did not. Travel as a kid much. I mean, we did some local road trips. I'm from New Mexico and Colorado, and we would do a little bit of driving, but I, you know, I had a bit of a difficult childhood and. Travel kind of found me actually in, um, 2006, my then boyfriend, now husband, um, and I were walking in Boulder, Colorado, and we came across this Land Rover.

Breanne: A car literally changed my life and changed the direction of my life. My husband's always been very into the old rugged Land Rover Defenders, and this happened to be a discovery for anybody who knows the difference, um, and We introduced ourselves to the couple selling it and they were doing an overland trip.

Breanne: They had already done an overland trip all throughout South America and they were about to head out to Africa to do the same sort of thing. And as a person who never, uh, grew up traveling, I always had kind of that independent spirit. I've moved a lot in my life. I've restarted many, many times. And I just was so curious.

Breanne: How could somebody do this? How could somebody just leave everything they know? In a car and hope for the best. And so after we bought their car, um, I invited them out to dinner and we just sat and we picked their brain at Mountain Sun in Boulder. And, um, we were smitten by the idea and decided to do the same thing.

Breanne: And so my husband and I sold everything we owned and we traveled for six months in Latin America, just busing from here to there, we had saved 6, 000. And that's what we had for airfare and everything for six months. And we made it work and we got to see a lot and it was incredible. Um, after that experience, I, I had worked in hotels for many years prior to that.

Breanne: And when I came back, I just thought I have so much information in my head, so much information about travel and locations and things of that nature that I need to do something with this. And I ended up getting my first job in the adventure travel industry with Wildland Adventures. , and that. Has become the core of everything I do.

Breanne: I mean, travel, I think people who travel with a lot of curiosity and openness find that it doesn't require going very far. Going into your backyard can be traveling, can be an adventure. And as you get older, The more I get into this travel world, the more I realize that you don't have to pack up and get on an airplane to be affected.

Breanne: You don't have to have those giant experiences. Are they fun? Certainly. Do I plan on doing them for the rest of my life? Of course. But I, I find that one of the kind of expressions that we have within our company here is, You've heard the unexamined life is not worth living. And we say the unexamined trip is not worth living.

Breanne: So what I try to focus on now is ensuring that I have a very good life. And I'm exploring here because if I can't do that in my regular setting, no trip is going to, Have the ability to change me, but if I can find grounding and I can find curiosity in my town, in the day to day, in the monotony of it all, then when I go on a trip, then I I'm primed and I'm ready to, to be there and to be fully present.

Breanne: And as a person who started off backpacking, jumping from place to place, I felt very unmoored when I was doing that, and we've actually talked about this a little bit and I realized I could never do that again. And so that that experience inspired me to actually live abroad because for me, finding that grounding and stability doesn't necessarily mean I don't get to adventure.

Breanne: I don't get to go out and do those things. It's just I just need to establish a community and sometimes that takes a little less movement. And so I've had the chance to live in Argentina and Spain and all over this country. And that has been such a great catalyst to my exploration and finding a way to explore that makes me feel held and makes me feel safe.

Christine: Well, I love the last thing that you said the most of anything, so I don't want to forget that you said it. Um, but I wanted to, to kind of think about, I feel like when people are looking for travel experiences, there's this kind of romantic idea of, Like escape and discovery, but it's kind of all this like external action and Then the tricky thing happens and like you said travel finds you I feel also like the medicine of travel finds you and So then you realize kind of like you were saying that the benefits of travel can happen anywhere But I wonder if you have to have traveled first With the out the idea that travel could heal you to understand that travel can heal you and then to understand that the travel that heals you can happen in your backyard.

Christine: I don't know if that makes sense. That's what I was thinking as you were talking. Like, can you jump to the end of the journey? Are we trying to jump our travelers to the end of the journey because we're trying to put them right there in that healing spot or do you have to ebb and flow and move your way through that?

Christine: I don't know. That's what I was just thinking as you were talking.

Breanne: so many thoughts. That's such a beautiful question. I have so many thoughts. Um, just rambling through my mind. , personally, I think that there needs to be a catalyst for change and there needs to be a catalyst to open your eyes to recognize that change is possible. Um, I personally started doing the real deep healing about seven years ago.

Breanne: Prior to that, I would have never thought that change was possible, that I, I was a really volatile, very depressed person. I, I have combated depression my entire life and I had all sorts of physical ailments and things of that nature. And I can't say that physically traveling is the only catalyst that got me here, but it certainly was an avenue that allowed me to see.

Breanne: That we don't all have to do things the exact same way, you know, when you go into these other communities and you see that not everybody is prioritizing stuff and looking the fanciest and eating the most expensive food and things of that nature, it reminds you that that is, that's just a societal issue.

Breanne: That's not, that's not you and just. It just gives you an opportunity to examine your own life and what's important to you. And maybe you don't want to do it the way you see it in another country, but at least you know that you can do it different ways and be happy and successful. And so I do think that travel can be that catalyst.

Breanne: And I would say with With my company. That's something I bank on. Um, we have beautiful humans traveling with us. I, I'm not sure how we did it, but we aggressively say who we are and we say who we're for. And I've recently realized that we are for everyone. Vulnerable people open to change who focus on kindness and there's no hatred.

Breanne: So we're an inclusive space, a safe space, and putting that out there and being really aggressive and saying who we are has allowed us to bring such beautiful humans on our trips and created such safe spaces. I recently had somebody on a backpacking trip who said, I, Don't feel like I've ever been seen for all the parts of me and I've certainly never been accepted for all the parts of me and you get in these really vulnerable, rugged experiences with strangers and to be able to see that people that they see your ugly travel.

Breanne: People say that travel brings out who you really are. I don't know that that's true. Travel's uncomfortable. It brings out certainly brings out the ugly. And if you can see that you're still beautiful in your ugliest stage with strangers, then that's just such a gift for you to take home with you. Um, and so I would say that it can be a huge catalyst for change.

Breanne: Only if people are curious and ready. And my first trip, I don't think I was curious and ready, to be honest. I think it took me a number of years to find safety within myself, to actually start digging deep and, and exploring that. But I don't, you know, maybe just years and years of discomfort. What my catalyst was.

Breanne: Yeah, I think that's such a beautiful, that's such a beautiful question though. It also reminds me of Eckhart Tolle has this. He's talking about, you know, so often we talk about, Oh, I need to get into nature. I need to get into nature to feel like myself. And while I agree with that, while I feel my best when I'm in a more natural surrounding, um, we are nature and we forget that we have this within ourselves.

Breanne: And so his whole idea is if you're sitting in the middle of a chaotic mall, that's literally nothing. Natural built in. It's all manmade. You are still in nature because you're within yourself. And I do think sometimes changing the external and making it a little bit more rugged and making yourself uncomfortable can remind you that there is a space within yourself to discover that.

Breanne: So the answer is maybe.

Christine: Yeah, I love that. I love a maybe answer or just questions and no answers. So that is a place that I'm more comfortable with being these days. And the last thing that you said, you know, of being. on an adventure and being held and feeling tethered, like, or not tethered, but grounded, which I love. By the way, I don't know if Root Adventures was where you started when you created your company or if it is what it is now, but that's exactly like the idea of feeling rooted while adventuring feels counter into like, it feels like it's opposite, right?

Christine: Again, people like are often. Feeling like they're trying to cut all the ties and set out into the world and, um, I think for those of us that want to feel connection, you've all of a sudden kind of done the opposite of what you need. So the idea of being able to explore and be held. And be safe, I think is a, is a different space.

Christine: And I think maybe that's even what the both of us have connected on so much is just because we feel how much we need that so that we work really hard to create that for others. And then much like the woman that you, Just share the person you just shared, like, when you, you feel that differently. So you can grow in that space differently.

Christine: Like you're being pushed and uncomfortable because of the activities you're participating in, but you're doing it in like this very held space. And it's so different than doing it in a space where there's No edges and no limits

Breanne: Yes.

Christine: where where no one's gonna catch you like it's okay I don't know. It's just a different energetic and and I really just appreciate that Consciousness to create that space from you And I want to talk a little bit more about Where your company came from, because I think, um, understanding all of that is very much like my business.

Christine: Like knowing where it came from helps us know why it's here. And I definitely created my company for me first. Like this was the space I needed. And this was the kind of travel that nourishes me. And I wanted other people to have the same experience, but it really was. For me first, like I desperately needed this container.

Christine: Um, and I know for you, that was a little bit of your, your company came out of this moment in, in your life where you really needed. needed this. So I want to, I was wondering if you could just share a little bit about how your business started and then also how you've been very open in sharing your mental health journey and how that and the experiences you offer are impacted by that and the culture of your business.

Christine: Like they're all layered together to create what you have created.

Breanne: Yes, absolutely. My business has been back to catalyst this. It has been the catalyst to my mental health in a way I never could have imagined. Um, I started it deep in the throes of postpartum depression. I was, I believe, I believe you might know my friend, Lindsay Harshman, but she had come to visit and I was having lunch with her right before that I had a complete mental breakdown, physical mental breakdown with my boss at the time, and as kind and generous as he was, he was like, this is still a business, I got to run my business, and I knew that I was flailing, I knew I was doing a horrible job, so I showed up to lunch, just in tears, just just just I had postpartum depression.

Breanne: I was doing terribly at my work and my friend sat there with me and said, I understand you need to start a business. Excuse me. I'm not starting a business right now. Like I just told you everything's chaos. I can't, I can't even get my own job done. I'm doing a terrible job of parenting all the things.

Breanne: And I remember on the walk there, I was just bawling, crying on the walk home. It's just a 15 minute walk. I had my entire business planned in my head. I knew everything. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. And so I made a commitment over the next six months. I was like, I'm going to make things right with the company I work for, because that just felt like a necessary step.

Breanne: And so I worked really hard with them. I, and I built Root Adventures in the evenings, and I made a commitment to speak to, I knew a woman every single day. And so I'd meet somebody, ask her to introduce me to somebody else, ask her to introduce me to somebody else. And I built this amazing network that I had been craving for years.

Breanne: And it was just from one simple rule. And I also in, in that found so much connection that helped lift me into a space that I could be myself. Find some healing found a great psychiatrist and gotten the meds that were perfect for me and I'm still on those today and I never plan personally for me. I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

Breanne: I will never get off of my SSRIs because This is living. I'm living right now and it afforded between those and all the other work I do. I have a chance at life. And in my meeting of a new woman every day, I actually met my now partner, business partner, Carissa. She And I met at a coffee shop. There was something about her.

Breanne: There was just this energetic connection. And I was like, I don't know what this woman does, but I know I need to be around it. So after a coffee, I emailed her and I was like, I don't, I don't get it. I don't know what you do, but I think I need it. And she ended up becoming my mindfulness coach for five years.

Breanne: And she quite literally changed my life. Um, she gave me my life back. Back to me and reminded me how much power I have. Um, I continued building route through all of this personal growth and ups and downs and something wasn't right though. I would go on my trips and I would feel depleted and I wouldn't feel, I, I couldn't really allow myself to be in them.

Breanne: I felt like I was just so concerned with making everybody else happy. And I would come back and it would take me months to recover. And I realized. That I had not created the business that I wanted for myself, as you were saying, like I had created a business that focused on retreats and wellness and, you know, all the pretty things, but I missed.

Breanne: That whole connection piece. I miss the connection to the community within our groups. I miss the connection to nature and the connection to the communities we visit. All of that was missing because we were getting really nice hotels and things of that nature. And I started offering backpacking trips and noticed that the people that came on those trips were.

Breanne: incredibly open and incredibly supportive, not just of each other, but even of my company and these women that started traveling with me. And we were open to men and women. For the most part, women travel with us. They, they started being my advocates and they started being my advocates, not just for my company, but for myself.

Breanne: And I, I started to feel like this, this is right. And then COVID happened. And so lucky me, I got a chance to truly reinvent the company. And during that time, Carissa, my mindfulness coach of years past was like, I actually am leaving my job. I have some free time. Do you want some help? And she came on for a couple of weeks and I was like, yes, this is good.

Breanne: And now she's full time. She's been with us for years and she's helped reinvent the entire program. Every zoom call we have pre trip, we do a meditation led by her. We are focused so much on continuing education because travel's not accessible to everyone, but we want to make sure that we're offering resources.

Breanne: That allow people to get to that space of healing, even if they can't go on that big trip. So figuring out how can we teach you to travel outside your back door, you know, that sort of things, that sort of thing. And yeah, the business quite honestly saved my life. It pulled me out of my postpartum depression.

Breanne: It gave me this open mind. Amazing network of women for the most part and, um, confidence to really follow what I believe in. Um, during COVID, as I rebuilt this business, I, it, you know, it was scary times for all of us in the travel industry. And my husband was still at the mindset of, okay, but You know, the other way where we work with these wellness professionals, you can start to make more money faster.

Breanne: And I was like, yeah, but that's not what I want. I'm it's, this needs to be whole, this needs to feel real. And so it just spent, I've spent the past few years building that foundation and the product we offer is. It's unbelievable. I'm so proud. Every time I go on a trip, I come back full of life, full of excitement.

Breanne: My tour leaders say that they go on these trips working and they come back changed. They come back having been on retreat, so to speak. Um, and it's just been a beautiful, natural progression.

Christine: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing about that because I think it, it is also, I think, very interesting. And in my own journey, when I started to create my company, there's like, The idea inside you and then what business looks like. And I feel like we are kind of at this unique time where so many of us are kind of, again, like pushing against those edges and being like, yes, this is how it has worked.

Christine: And this is the way that makes money. And this is the way that makes sense. And you're like, and this is what my heart really wants. this business to be because it's not just about me and it's not just about business. It really is about healing and it really is about community. And I feel like that's the biggest struggle I have is because for me, community and healing sometimes overtakes the business part.

Christine: And I do have to remember the business part, but I think it's also really important for people who feel like they have businesses within them that don't really conform to a shape that exists right now to go ahead and just like create a new shape because every person I've seen who, who has done that, who just keeps saying like, yeah, but this, like once they tighten it down, the thing they have created is one very, very unique and two, really powerful.

Christine: And even three, like so personally rewarding that it doesn't, It's not like a burden to you. You know, a business can become, like you said, something that becomes draining and you really, not that it's always easy, because obviously it's still hard, but like, it shouldn't constantly take from you, I think. I think that's what we've been told.

Christine: We've been told like, That's what you look like if you're successful is exhausted and ragged and working, you know, 80 hour weeks and constantly wearing the wounds of that. But I think that doesn't have to be true. And I really, I admire the conversations that you have in business. because I think it's important for us to have that and I think it's really relatable.

Christine: Um, and I have myself really been trying to share because over the past I guess it's been a year and a half or two years I have had just like I guess maybe menopause related health issues and other like stress in my life but then also Like, just hit burnout and like, I didn't recognize, I was like, okay, burnout is like, you know, hashtag burnout, hashtag water cooler talk or something, you know, like it felt like a trendy thing that people almost like they wanted to say, right.

Christine: Almost like that idea of busyness is a badge of honor. Like burnout is this badge of honor or something. And I just. I realized I, I was, I was done. Like I had lost myself, lost my motivation. And there was like physical symptoms and mental system symptoms and all of this. And I'm still even trying to figure out what the heck is going on and who knows what day I'm going to be in when I wake up.

Christine: Um, but I think the most important thing is talking about it because when I talk with other women about it, then they're like, Oh, phew. Like we can talk about this. And I just was at, well, I was at my class reunion, but, and I was at another travel event and I cannot tell you how many people like started talking about menopause.

Christine: And I was like, what? And then started talking about burnout or being tired or feeling like they had hit the bottom of their creativity or we're not at the top of their game. And I just felt like, man, this is a really different conversation. That I was having. And I feel like the more we talk about this, the more it becomes normalized.

Christine: And instead of being people that are just curating our Instagram feeds and doing our SEO and managing teams, and then you add on like, as I shared with you, two kids, homesick, um, parenting roles, other, other roles. We have to be real first and human first and be authentic, like not because I think you might agree.

Christine: You can see this on social media where people are like selling you this story, but it's not real. So like, I don't know if I have a question here, but what I'm thinking about is like, what is your dance with being a leader been and being like authentic and showing up and vulnerable and not just keeping up appearances?

 How do you feel like that adds value in your leadership role and how do you think it's important?

Breanne: Great question. Great insights. Thank you. I have a few thoughts on that. I'm sure you remember when you're a kid, when we were kids, adults would constantly tell us just be yourself, be yourself, be yourself. And I remember thinking as a kid, I don't know who that is. How can I be something that I don't understand?

Breanne: so much. I mean, and I think the bottom line is we don't, that's the wrong messaging. I think the messaging is be in alignment, you know, like be, be curious, be whatever you're feeling, give it the attention, give it the space. We don't need to just present whatever comes out of us because that's not. That's not a representation of who we are as humans.

Breanne: Um, and I think that I've spent the last however many years, um, trying to discover who I am. And I've gone through a lot of versions in the last five years. There's, there's this thing that I think happens with healing where you, it's a pendulum, right? You like, When I was younger, I would use my shyness, my quietness to protect myself.

Breanne: And then I got a little bit older and I went the completely opposite direction. The pendulum swung and I was aggressive and I wasn't going to let anybody get me down. It wasn't just as much pain as I was when I was younger, but it was a new way of me addressing it. And as I started working through, through my, you know, childhood trauma and everything of that nature.

Breanne: I went, the pendulum came back and I was like, I just want to leave everybody happier than when I found them. And I just want to always say the nice things. And it was great for a minute, but it really started to pull at me. It started to make me feel exhausted because even if I would do my absolute best to make people feel good, I wasn't making everybody feel good.

Breanne: And then recently I feel like I've come more into alignment where. I want to put good out there all the time. I want to be my best self all the time. But your response to that is not my responsibility. And, you know, I have a beautiful coach who recently told me, well, what if making them feel good in that moment ultimately has a more negative result for them in the future?

Breanne: You don't, you don't need to know how they're going to respond to you. You just need to show up as your full self. And I think that. It takes a while to figure out who that self is. And I think we need to have a little bit more patience with just that discovery. Um, and I am all about being open and sharing that.

Breanne: And I have been for a long time. I mean, honest to a fault, many will say, including my best friend at my wedding. Um, and. It's, but I've always felt like I was getting closer and closer to reality. The more I was authentic, even if it wasn't exactly an expression of who I know I am in my soul. Um, and it's been really important to me to tell my story along the way.

Breanne: I mean, with my, when I finally got out of postpartum depression, I wrote an article for scary mommy and the title was. A little trigger warning here, the, it was a picture of me in the mountains, hiking to a hut with my son on my backpack, smiling big. And the title was just before this photo was taken, I was contemplating suicide and it's not meant to trigger people.

Breanne: It's not meant to get any sort of attention. It's just a reminder that we're all putting up this facade. We're all trying our best to make people feel better, but ultimately that doesn't make anybody better. Um, so I, I. I used that as a real stepping stone to be honest with who I am and to rediscover who I am.

Breanne: And, you know, after having my son, I had some pretty bad back issues and I can no longer run in my entire life. I was a runner and I've come to realize that I made so many of the things I did and so many of my interests who I am, and that's not accurate. I am a person and I have a child and I like to run and so then when I lost the ability to be a runner it felt like I lost a piece of myself.

Breanne: I'm no longer a runner. Oh, I'm still the same whole person. I just don't run anymore. Um, and so I would say that, um, That constant discovery and that honesty with myself is the most important piece to relaying that truth to people in my community and people within ROOT. I, I, you'll know, notice on all my trips, I am just as honest with people there as I would be if I wasn't working.

Breanne: Um, and one of the things that I have noticed in sharing that is As you said, people on Instagram are often sharing their stories. They're telling their stories and they're telling them over and over and over again, because that's what the algorithm wants. And I love sharing stories. I love being honest.

Breanne: I can't do social media. And I know it is such a huge part of success for small businesses. I can't do it. It takes away from me so deeply that I would rather lose business. I would rather not be on people's radar because I refuse to give away that piece of me. Um, I will tell you my story. I will be honest.

Breanne: I love writing whatever you need from me. I like to be available. But that's a medium that doesn't work for me. And because I, I don't want, I don't know why it doesn't work for me. I mean, I think because scientifically it's not healthy for us. I'm guessing is part of it, but I think you have to choose, choose your outlet.

Breanne: Choose your way of being honest. Does it really fill you up? If it does fill you up to post on social media, absolutely do it and do it however you want to. I support you. If it's not filling you up, stop doing it.

Christine: Yeah. I think it's, um, really, it's really wise to understand who you are and like integrate that with how you run your business. And again, I think this is a different, it's a different model because that's not what the rules will tell you, right? If it says do social media, then of course we do it. It doesn't say.

Christine: How do you feel when you engage with others on social media? Do you feel good? Great. That's a part of your business plan. Do you feel awful? Don't do that. That's not what the, that's not what models say, right? But I think this is just such a, a powerful time for people to be real. And like, I've talked a lot about being a human in business, like being a human first, like that's, that's who we are first, right?

Christine: Kind of like you were just saying, our business is this part of us. And it's probably actually really helpful not to let it just be us, especially when we love it so deeply, because that can also be hard, and I have grappled with that as well, like, when you are putting something out there that is so much a part of yourself, and it doesn't work the way you want it to.

Christine: It's very hard. But if it is just this thing that you love, but it's not you outside of 

Breanne: Um, 

Christine: it's, it just feels different. This is probably a lesson I'm learning right now. So I'm not sharing this as any kind of expert, but like having this awareness of how beneficial it is to be able to look at things this way and, and, Really?

Christine: Our culture still tells us what we create is our value. And so I think it's it's just really a different way of thinking and feeling about business. And I think if we could model this more, we would have more wellness in our leaders. And I and I also wonder if there would even be more women in women. Executive roles. If you could be more in alignment with who you are and still be a leader. This is me just totally hypothesizing. I have no scientific evidence, but I feel like a lot of us have we feel that dissonance at some point, and it's not worth it. And so it's okay to go. Like kind of get to a certain space without losing ourselves.

Christine: I don't know, again, conjecture only, but, um, before we were going to run out of time, I knew this was going to happen with you and I, cause we like get into these social discussions, which is why we're here. It's literally the soul of travel, but I want to talk more about your business as well. So, um, we, we talked a little bit about your.

Christine: core values. And again, these resonate so much with me because they're so similar with what I set out to create as well. But when you talk about community and equity and sustainability and mindfulness and nature, why were those so important to you and how do you incorporate that into the travel that you offer?

Breanne: So the pillars we were, I was at a loss for an identity for the company, and it's so funny that you mentioned that about the company not being you. That is something I have fought for tooth and nail from the very beginning is identity. I had so many people say, you should name your business after yourself.

Breanne: And I was like, no, but it's my business. It's not me. I don't want, I don't want that. And you know, so many people saying, get on social media, tell like, put yourself out there. And I've truly been fighting it with every single person because that's the narrative. That's what you're supposed to do. Well, the company is you.

Breanne: No, the company to me is people and it's everybody. And it's all the stories. It's stories. That's what it is for me. And I feel so. It was a long road to get here. I was very wrapped up in the identity of myself being in the business. But one thing I've never done is cross over my personal social media with my professional, because I needed to have some sort of line drawn because I've obviously crashed and burned.

Breanne: Everybody does. And I, and I've reached burnout and. Now I'm at the point where because from the very beginning, I've been like, I am not my business. I am not my business. I'm not going to put it on social. I'm going to probably be a lot less successful because of it. And I'm going to miss a lot of opportunities, but I don't want people conflating a business with me because I don't want myself conflating that. 

Breanne: So the pillars came to be a couple of years ago, Carissa and I sat down and we're like, so who is this business? If it's not you, what is it? Who is it? Let's give it a personality. Let's give it some values and like values are what drive everything for me in my life.

Breanne: Um, and yeah, that's, Travel has that space to kind of hold you in a way that a lot of other things don't. So, um, we thought, what, what is it that our trips are going to do? How are we going to hold people? And hence the pillars of every single thing we do is based on those pillars. Um, again, community and.

Breanne: Equity and inclusion, nature, um, sustainability. They're all incredibly important to us and they all actually work really tightly together. Um, it's a kind of interesting thinking of them as pillars because together they hold everything up for us. Um, when we think about all the tasks we can do to implement these pillars like sustainability, for instance, we pay people to, you know, Fix their gear rather than buy new gear.

Breanne: We include all of our rental, all rentals. If you need a t shirt, we will rent it for you. We will figure it out because we want to help people change the way that they interact day to day. And so if you go into a trip thinking, I've never backpacked before. Maybe I should try it before I buy this super wasteful 500 backpack.

Breanne: That's just a new way you're, that's, that's a habit that you're starting to form and how you treat your life, how you treat everything in your day to day life. It's like, We used to have people that would say, okay, I'm going to REI, send me that packing list. And now we're like, Hey, maybe don't go to REI.

Breanne: Let's look and see if you can get anything, other things to, to, that you already have to work. As my husband says, the most environmentally friendly water bottle is the one you already have. We don't need to get a bamboo water, water bottle. If we have a crappy plastic one that holds water just fine.

Breanne: That's a much better alternative. Um, and so we really try to integrate. all of these pieces together. Yeah, again, going back to community and sustainability is such an easy to merge option. We include free public transport. If you use public transportation, we will reimburse you for that fee.

Breanne: And that's a reminder that. There are these community ways of getting places. There are these options that not only are great for the environment, they're great for your mental health. Being on a bus with people is probably way healthier for you than being stuck behind a wheel in traffic, silently getting mad at everybody in front of you.

Breanne: I mean, I love being on a bus and seeing all the characters. Um, so everything we do, we try to bring back to those pillars. Um, and. It's kind of back to that idea you were talking about burnout. One of the other things we like to keep in mind with everything we do is Everything's seasonal.

Breanne: You know, we all go through our winters. We all go through our springs where we're just super motivated and getting everything together. And if we can just be more witness to the things around us, then we can More easily navigate through the winter. We can more easily navigate through depression I mean, I would say for me as a person who has suffered from depression since I was 12 years old and Medicine doesn't cure you of it.

Breanne: You still have you still plenty of paddles I now when I feel the depression coming on I now can say Oh, there it is. I see you. Okay. I'll sit with you now. As opposed to, I don't want to be depressed. I don't want to go through this or maybe not even noticing it. Um, so I think it's all about witnessing, paying attention and doing things with intention.

Christine: I love that. I mean, I think that for, for me too, the values are so helpful in decision making because it's, as you know, with being a business owner, like decisions are endless, and that in itself can be very exhausting. And so when you really know what your values are, it's really easy to say yes and no.

Christine: And when you really know what your community, what you want your community to learn from you, and what you want to model for them, like, I think it's really easy to, to shape things. And, you know, if honesty and transparency and community are a strong value, then you know This is how you show up. And if sustainability is a strong value, then, you know, you can take this action.

Christine: And, you know, I think it's just really easy to help cut off the things that aren't necessary. And I think that also helps us to feel more well, because if you're struggling, cause you, again, like you have this should outlier and you're like, Oh, it should be. And then you're like, no, this isn't an alignment.

Christine: I actually can just let that one. Go. And so I, I think, um, yeah, it's really helpful in just creating that context and creating that overall well being of our business and of ourselves and of us in our business.

Breanne: And I would also say that if you can get those in line and put them out there to the world. The world will hold you accountable to like, we recently launched a trip to Oaxaca over, um, Dia de los Muertos and one of our travel writer client friends wrote us and was like, Hey, do you know what's going on in Oaxaca?

Breanne: Over Dia de los Muertos and in general, and we were like, no, we don't. And she shared a bunch of resources. We canceled that trip. We moved it to different dates and it's just, it makes it so much more accessible. If you say, this is what's important to me is we're not going to know everything. We're not going to do everything right.

Breanne: But if we have a community that will hold us accountable, makes my job to stay in line much easier.

Christine: Yeah. And that's so interesting because I noticed on your website you have, um, I think, you can correct me, I guess, now I can't remember, like, not your bucket list adventure or something like that, and mine was, and this, maybe this is an SEO game with you too, is, like, beyond the bucket list, so it's like, Algorithm really wants you to say bucket list, I don't know, um, but, But I was like, that's not what we're doing.

Christine: But just what you were talking about. So with Oaxaca, like, yes, that might be someone's dream place to go. But how can we get them there in a way that aligns with our values? And even I was there this time, not quite yet, but about a month. From now last year and looking at I, you know, so many people asked to go there for de los muertos and it's such a magical destination.

Christine: And when we went, they were starting to set things up and you were seeing the flowers coming and starting to see some of the things coming together for that event. And the operator that I was working with was like, wouldn't you love to come here for that? And I was like, no. I wouldn't. Like, I feel like I would be a part of, you know, bringing too much, too many people to this small community, taking away from the beauty of this And we had quite a long conversation about it. And he was like, well, if you really wanted to come here and you wanted your guests to have some of that experience or they really want to have this experience. Let's talk about how we could do that in a way that feels more aligned with your values. Could you come earlier so that they do see some of it.

Christine: And then let's get out of Oaxaca, but maybe go stay with a family who is celebrating the Deal those mortals who you can understand more the culture you can sit with them at their table and you can share with them. And I was like, Okay, to me, that feels more like a way I would want to be here because, well, I want to see it because it's incredible.

Christine: I really want to be conscious of. What does that mean? Here's all the other questions I have to ask, which back to just having questions and no answers, I just knew switching me that goes, um, like yucky or, uh, not equitable or uncomfortable, like went off. And I really wanted to think about that. And I, and I then looked at those values for my business and said, okay, how can we, how can we make this feel Right.

Christine: And how can we still support your business, support your communities and honor this place? So I think it's just really interesting. Like you said, like if people really, really understand, like they're also used to just telling you this is what everybody wants. So of course, that's when you want to come.

Christine: But when you're designing a trip, when you like, really say what you want. I think also people helping you to create that locally get really excited because they're used to creating what everybody else is buying. And it, that is a very different experience. I also, I wanted to talk to you just a little bit before we end, like group travel, I think is something that's really important for both of us.

Christine: And you've talked a little bit about the magic of those spaces. Oh, we didn't get to talk to you about your guy, your tour leaders yet either. Okay. Forget group travel. We love group travel. I'm just going to say it happens amongst groups of women. You have incredible tour leaders. And I really, really, really wanted to talk about this.

Christine: You mentioned it earlier. You said this is, you know, something you've worked really hard to create in the last few years. And as I'm on your page, I both looked at your Oaxaca trip and your Baja trip. Those are the two that I would choose. In a heartbeat from what you're offering right now. Um, but I felt like a kid in a candy store looking at.

Christine: Your tour leaders. Can you tell me a little bit about your team? They seem super unique. They're holding space for these experiences Why are they important?

Breanne: My tour leaders. They're the best. Um, our tour leaders have a myriad of backgrounds. Um, but they're all really incredible at seeing people at being present of creating, uh, safe containers. And so You know, they're on the first call. We do a couple of zoom calls prior to the trip. They're on the first call already establishing a level of safety.

Breanne: And by the time we all meet it, um, they, they've already created a space where people on the first night, it's not, it's not unusual for every single person on the trip to cry the first night, because it's for the first time ever, they've had a space that is full of people with the same expectations, but also a tour leader that has the skills.

Breanne: To ensure that the space feels safe, because there's so often people have opinions and people want to interject and they want to cut you off. And you'll notice we don't ever cut people off. You know, that's such an American thing to have these conversations where we're talking over people talking over.

Breanne: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're really excited to share our story, but there's something really beautiful that happens when you have a tour leader that has the skills to see people because they end up allowing. The stories to finish in, in the own natural time and have space between when somebody else finishes and when somebody else starts talking.

Breanne: And our tour leaders have a great. Great different set of skills that some of them have done wilderness therapy in our therapists. And like I said, some of them are come from completely different backgrounds and they maybe don't usually leave people in such a formal experience, but you know, we have a new tour leader who works in He's a project manager in construction.

Breanne: The amount of caring and thought and kindness that is required to work with people from all those different fields is really impressive. Um, and so we really just look for humans that are, I'm going to say it again, that are present, that are experiencing it, that are curious, and we have. formed such a beautiful collection.

Breanne: Um, and you know, we're becoming closer as the years go by and I'm honored to know them and like being in space with them. I'm like, how? I am not of this caliber. How do I get to hang out with these people? And it's such a reminder of, you know, you are the average of closest people. And these people just raise the bar.

Christine: Yeah, thank you I'll encourage our listeners to just visit your website and Check out what we're talking about because it really just makes me excited It just shows me the level of intention and thoughtfulness in curating Experiences for people to actually grow and heal like you can see that those are the people there to help that happen.

Christine: And when I saw that, it's just really obvious that that's What you want is, you know, going back to the story. One of the questions I had asked for you is like, how do you know you've succeeded with your travelers, but for them to say that they've been seen and that all of them has been seen and witnessed and really honored.

Christine: I feel like there's no greater gift. I feel like I've heard that in the past from travelers. And that's like the deepest compliment is, is that, because I think that's what we want for ourselves. And if we can give that to someone else, it's a real. special moment. So I am, I love that. Um, okay. We, we have just enough time to do our rapid fire questions to wrap up our conversations.

Christine: The first is what are you reading right now?

Breanne: I'm reading so many books right now. I'm reading Cutting for Stone. I just finished Breath, which I absolutely love and recommend everybody read.

Breanne: There's a long list. There's not, I have nine of them right now.

Christine: I love that. I am currently with the overcoming burnout reading one book at a time. And I've actually been reading some, um, young adult fantasy, um, My oldest daughter . So that's what I've been reading, which is unusual. 'cause normally I'm reading 27 books, but I needed to narrow it Good for you.

Christine: own wellbeing.

Breanne: How dare you wear.

Christine: Yeah. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you

Breanne: Um, my eye mask is one of my favorite things to travel with.

Christine: um, to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while, whereas somewhere that you would still long to sojourn.

Breanne: You know, It's cheesy, but wherever I'm called, and we are, like we said, we're the anti bucket list. It's not to say you can't go to bucket list places, but I don't want a list of where to go. I just want to be where I am.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, that's so good. And also where you called because I was talking. To somebody else with somebody else about this. I don't remember who so if it was on the pad podcast and you just heard it. I'm sorry, but I don't remember but like when when places call to you just Like being okay with answering it even if it's the most unusual place that you keep like every time you pick up a book like that's where they're going or you pick up a magazine and that's what they're talking about or you see a movie or something like I really feel like there is.

Christine: Power and recognize that some someplace has a gift for you, and if you just keep hearing about that place that it's okay to say yes to that, even if it doesn't feel like an unexpected place or a place you always plan to go. I feel like that's where the best experiences happen.

Breanne: I'm also a fan of Jomo, by the way, Joy of Missing Out. So it's like, I'll give up all those bucket list places if that place is calling me. Yeah. See ya.

Christine: yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so good. Um, what do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?

Breanne: Potatoes always make me think of Peru. So many potatoes,

Christine: Yes. Yeah. I was just gonna say, so many potatoes. I remember being somewhere and they're like, potatoes 12 ways. And I was like, it is a good thing, I love potatoes.

Breanne: not a good allergy to have there.

Christine: Um, who was a person that inspired you or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?

Breanne: Um, I, this might be a little egocentric, but I'm going to say myself, I, you know, I never traveled as a kid, but I always had that mentality. And first shot I had, I took it and I'm, I'm very proud of that.

Christine: Yeah, I think that's great. And not egocentric. I think you just listened to what your soul wanted you to do. So that's honorable to be able to do that. Um, if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?

Breanne: My son, he's the best. It's a really good traveler too. A little eight year old nugget.

Christine: Yeah. Um, as you know, Soul of Travel is about recognizing and celebrating women in the tourism industry. Who is one woman that you would like to recognize in this space?

Breanne: So many. Um, I do want to recognize Allison from Woe Travel. We met on an ATTA trip in Columbia, 2021, March, 2021 during COVID. And I was lost. This was before Root became what Root is today. And. She has been my direct competitor is we're partnering on a trip to Kilimanjaro. She has been such a guiding light in finding my way when I felt lost.

Christine: Thank you. It's so important to find those people. So thank you for sharing. Um, and thank you for being here for this conversation. Um, I'm so grateful that we were able to make this happen and especially to have, um, this real authentic soulful conversation happen as the last conversation for the season.

Christine: So we can let people know what's coming. For next season, uh, tease them a little with all of this connection. I really appreciate it. And, um, yeah, thank you so

Breanne: for putting this out there. It's so lovely.