Women’s Wisdom through Travel & Life’s Transitions with Beth Kruger

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Beth Kruger.

Beth curates wellness retreats and experiences for women over 40 that focus on the core pillars of a healthy lifestyle: nutritious food, movement, stress reduction, and relationships. Her transformative experiences support the transitions of midlife by normalizing and celebrating the aspects of living well, of aging with grace and purpose, and of gaining wisdom and confidence in a female body surrounded by a culture that is obsessed with the physical appearance of youth. Her retreats are curated for women in midlife, highlighting connections and community with other women, spa experiences, healthy meals, educational workshops, and daily movement as well as mindfulness experiences like a sound sanctuary, yoga nidra, and more. She is dedicated to working with women over 40 as they create their dream retreats, and she also is accepting one-on-one clients and small group cohorts.

Christine and Beth discuss:

· The confusion many women feel at different stages of life

· The lack of information available to help women  navigate puberty, child-birthing years, and perimenopause

· How Beth and Christine became information-seekers and were moved to create spaces to share

· The long-term habits that lead to burnout – and how to avoid it

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Beth Kruger.

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

LOVE these soulful conversations? Make a difference by making a donation to Lotus Sojourns on Buy Me a Coffee. Click here to subscribe to Apple Podcasts, so you don’t miss the latest episodes!

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Learn more about Women’s Room and connect with Beth:  https://www.bethkruger.com/. Connect with Beth! Instagram / LinkedIn / Facebook. Looking for a life-changing retreat for women over 40? Learn more!

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Looking for ways to be a part of the Lotus Sojourns community? Learn more here!

Find Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community for like-hearted women. Find solo travel trips for women over 50 on JourneyWoman.

Follow us on Instagram: @journeywoman_original, @lotussojourns and @souloftravelpodcast.

Credits. Christine Winebrenner Irick (Host, creator, editor). Beth Kruger (Guest). Original music by Clark Adams. Editing, production, and content writing by

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. I am your host, Christine. And today we are joined by Beth Kruger and we're going to be kind of continuing this conversation we're having in February on a little bit of inner journey and healing and wellness and wellbeing and how all of that intersects.

In travel as well as a conversation about, um, midlife, um, and like wisdom sharing for women. This theme just emerged and I'm so excited that it was perfectly aligned to have you Beth, here for this conversation. So welcome to the podcast.

Beth: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.

Christine: Thank you. Well, before we get going, I'm going to first turn it over to you to just tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you're doing that's kind of in the space of travel as it is right now.

Beth: Sure. So I am a retreat consultant and I also facilitate retreats. Both internationally or and domestically here in the US, which is where, um, I currently live, um, I, I have been brought to this work, um, essentially because I started out in the wellness industry as a yoga teacher with a passion for travel, as well as a passion for, uh, women and, um, See ya later.

Facilitating conversations with women and connection with women and, um, education for women and advocacy around women's health and, um, women's bodies. So I started, um, adding retreats to the yoga part of my business, uh, back in 2017. And so that's kind of how I got into the travel industry wasn't really a mistake, but I've definitely started out small and now have grown to, um.

Just really focus completely on the travel aspect of my business as well as some of the education piece, but It's all remote now. Remote and moving around.

Christine: Yeah. Um, I love it. I feel like there is a lot of similar like growth patterns in our, in our, like, look, when I was researching, you know, some of your interests, like, I feel like I could see very similar spikes of like what was happening in our life journey

And it's like this continuous pattern of like, okay, I'm going through this, I'm going to consume as much information as possible, and now I'm going to create spaces to pass that wisdom along and it just keeps going. happening on repeat. Um, so I'm really excited to talk with you about this. This is definitely a episode while we're both in the travel space that I think is going to land heavily in the women's wisdom portion of the podcast.

And I feel like that's maybe something we're both so passionate about because it's so empowering and they're I know for myself, I've really had to look for spaces to find that information and every time I kind of go through one of these growth cycles in my journey, I'm like, why wasn't there that before or was it not?

Was it there? And I didn't see it because I wasn't in that stage of my own life yet. So

Beth: Mm hmm.

Christine: I feel like maybe we'll uncover some of that as we go along. But for instance, like I noticed that you had started with maybe some, um, like lactation consultant and, um, you know, education for women around childbirth and all of those things.

And as I went through that journey, um, when I had my first daughter, I took, um, Oh my gosh. Now, why can't I remember what it was? But it was a very long series of education around childbirth. And I was like, one of the only people I knew of my peers that were focusing that they're like, Oh, you mean Lamaze?

I'm like, no, no, no, no. This is, that's not what I'm learning. I'm like learning. Everything. I'm like, nobody has ever told me any of these things before. Why is that the case? Why is this secret information that I only get right now? And then like, I kept feeling like wisdom, women's wisdom was kind of under lock and key like that.

And I'm like, why, why is it under lock and key? Is it that like we can't learn it till we're ready or is it that there's something about. How strong we feel once we have that wisdom, that that's why it's under lock and key. So this wasn't scripted at all, but let's go ahead and like, does that spark anything for you in relation to your own journey?

Beth: Yeah, I think that's super interesting, actually. And I completely agree with you that there are these phases in life as a woman that we go through. And, um, There is this huge information gathering or knowledge seeking period that seems to come up. And so, like you said, for me, um, part of my information seeking journey or part of my career path, I guess, really, um, started from that information seeking time.

I was a, um, yoga teacher, In Manhattan and I started out teaching yoga actually on a whim in a way because I was very stressed out. I was in graduate school and I was pulling all nighters trying to finish, um, projects and, uh, make my deadline for, for my class. And I was not sleeping that much and just, you know, full of anxiety.

And I found yoga to be this thing that really grounded me and. Kept me feeling, um, whole and peaceful. So I started pursuing this yoga teaching certification and just loving it and soaking up all the knowledge. And after doing that for a few years, I became pregnant. And then I realized, Oh, this pregnancy thing.

I have no idea what's going on in my body. And, um, Like you, I felt like there was so much information that was under lock and key. I didn't grow up talking to my mom about what her birth experience was like or hearing women talk about their bodies or their birth experiences. And so when I was pregnant with my first baby, I realized I really don't know anything.

And I think that in, in about that, about that time of life, and I did a lot of research like you around what was happening to me. And I think A lot of it has to do with that we're not in a communal type of living arrangement anymore. We're not, we don't live in a village, a close knit community where we talk to other women about our cycle or our, um, fertility or our bodies.

So we. Have never really seen women giving birth. We've never probably seen a woman breastfeeding, uh, before we've had the opportunity to breastfeed ourselves. So, um, for me, that was like this huge awakening and this huge feeling like I needed to get this wisdom. I needed to learn about this. And the only way I could do it was just like you by consuming a ton of information.

And I think a lot of women during the childbearing years are like that, trying to figure it all out because we didn't grow up in that village society where we would have just observed it. May she.

Christine: hmm. Yeah. And I, I think it's so interesting too, when you kind of witness these groups of women seeking the information. And also for me, I've had these moments where I, when I see the gap and I'm just like, how did I get this far without knowing this about myself? And again, it's kind of this idea of lock and key.

And, um, I remember being at a conference and Christiane Northrup was speaking and she wrote, I'm sure you know, the book, the women's bodies, women's wisdom,

Beth: Mm hmm. Yeah,

Christine: this about their bodies?

It's like two people. It's like, what? We're all like probably at least women in our thirties and older. Maybe there was a few younger, but honestly we should have this very basic knowledge. Um, at that point I had kids, so I'd already gone through some of the cycle, but I just was like, I kept thinking like, how are we?

Here and then I realized like this gathering of women was rare that I was in. And ironically, when I was there was when I launched Lotus Sojourns. It was, um, uh, international women's day event or conference. And I had decided, okay, that's when I want to launch my business. So like I had had this idea of like the importance of gathering women and creating community for like sharing knowledge and learning from women all around the world.

And, you know, hit go. And then I'm sitting in this space where I'm seeing like how important it is that we need these spaces. Um, so I, I love that, you know, you, you also kind of experienced that. And then the other thing. Like once I have this knowledge and I don't know about you, but I'm like, okay, now everyone must know it.

Like, I don't want to keep this. I don't want to be the one hiding this information. I'm like, I will talk to you about breastfeeding. I will talk to you about childbirth. I will talk to you about all these things. And people are like, Oh my God. Christine's coming. It's going to be an awkward conversation, but what, what, what is that within you?

Do you feel the same like passion to get that out there?

Beth: definitely. And especially now with the work that I'm doing in perimenopause and menopause, because it's about our bodies. Changing again in another way in entering midlife and again, well, it's an area of people don't want to talk about and most women don't even want to say the word, certainly not, um, you know, out in the open out in the wild there, right?

So it's like kind of almost taboo to talk about the word and, um, and certainly, you know, sharing information about it, even though it's really necessary. So I definitely find, um, that is like something I feel really passionately about. It's just like really advocating and educating women about what's going on in their bodies.

So we don't have to feel Afraid of aging. Instead, we can really embrace it powerfully.

Christine: Do you think, you know, if you're looking at this in the context of travel, when you've traveled and I'm assuming you'd be like me, that you'll find yourself also connecting with other women where you're traveling, that this kind of Uh, like keeping of information is similar in other countries, or do you think other countries have more open dialogue?

Or do you think it really varies? Like, what have you witnessed as you, you see the conversation around, you know, women's health and women's knowledge in other places?

Beth: I think that's super interesting question. Um, I don't know if you've read a lot about history of childbirth. But when I started going into my deep dive, like you, when I became pregnant and I was learning about birth, um, Birth actually used to belong to midwives like midwives were the ones who helped women through this birthing experience.

And when midwives and folks Immigrated to the U. S. You know, hundreds of years ago from mostly Europe. I guess we're talking about, like, maybe the East Coast in the in the Boston area, right? They, um, a lot of midwives and and and people, uh, Moved to the United States of America to come for a different life, a better life, and, um, their older ways, the midwifery type ways of caring for birth, um, They sort of created a smear campaign against midwives.

So doc, being a doctor and being a surgeon was, um, they wanted to make it like that's where you go to have your baby instead of going to the old granny midwife. Um, so they kind of created this, uh, separation for, for the birthing experience for women was like, Oh, it's not safe to have a baby. With this, um, this granny midwife anymore.

You need to have a baby in a hospital. It's safer, and it wasn't actually safer, but that's just kind of carried on. Um, so I feel like that's particularly You know, a colonial thing and, um, plenty of other countries, you know, Europe, for example, and other countries that were colonized by European countries, uh, certainly have a similar kind of gatekeeping of the birthing experience like we have here in the United States.

Um, and then. So, yes, I do think that there's not that information that's given to most countries that were colonized by European countries. Um, but then those that, you know, um, haven't really traveled much in Asia, but I do know that there is very different birthing practices there, different ways of treating aging and, um, and the wisdom of that.

But it's mostly held by the women and not necessarily kept from them. Um, I also think there's other. Cultures and countries that I've visited where it's very taboo to talk about the functions of a woman's body anywhere in public. So you might be able to speak with women about their bodies, but it's very uncomfortable for them to talk about, say, menstruation or childbirth or menopause.

Um, and they'll talk about it with you in a private space or a place that feels like safe for them to. Like discuss the experiences that they have in their body. And I think, um, yeah, I think that that's where a lot of our, um, power lies is learning about what's going on in our bodies.

Christine: Yeah.

Beth: that we share that information.

Christine: Yeah. I was. And as you were talking about that too, I was, I was definitely thinking of, uh, even when you look at some of the other things that probably come up in working with women and coaching about like trusting our intuition and things like that, that when you take something as natural and kind of primal as birth away from women.

That's a huge thing that tells us we can't trust our bodies, like that we have to put our bodies in the power of somebody else, like

Beth: Mm. Mm. Mm.

Christine: for me, I, I have three daughters, so my last birth was a home birth, and I mean, and again, obviously, this is something I'm super comfortable talking about at this point, but like, That was the strongest, most powerful, most confident I have ever felt in my entire life.

And I was like, wow, every woman needs to do this. And I also understand why this experience has been removed from so many women, because if we knew how powerful we truly were. I can only imagine how things would be different in our society. Like it was, it was, it was the coolest thing I have ever experienced.

And I, I just think that that's where that disconnect is, where like, if we only knew. It changes the game, really, and I, again, like, I got right on to my, I'm like, I'm gonna become a midwife, and I'm gonna become all these things to share this information because it, it made me feel so strong, and also, I just was so frustrated that, like, there's only things that you seemed like you could learn once you'd already, it was too late to learn it, like, I've already gone through this

Beth: Oh, yes.

Christine: doesn't serve me to learn about it now.

Um, I did remember Bradley childbirth coaching. That's what I, I did. Um, and I also started, I'm horrible at this one. I love something. I'll like start learning everything about it and think that's my next thing I'm going to teach. Um, which means I've accumulated a lot of knowledge, but I haven't done the thing with a lot of things.

Um, but I remember watching my, my, my Bradley coach for my second child. I went through it again cause it was so powerful and I was like, Oh, I couldn't say these things that she just like sits there and says, you know, I'm like, Oh, it would be so terrible to just like say the word, you know, whatever in front of a whole group of strangers. Kind of like you were saying, like in many societies, it's just made so taboo. But I think because if we can feel that afraid of our bodies, like you're, you're really in a place where your power is limited. And so when you're looking at oppression of women, it makes sense to not let them own this knowledge and this experience.

And so, think that's maybe a part of why I feel like it's so important to have these conversations and then, you know, much like you, now that I'm Um, you know, almost 50 and I'm going through this other midlife transition and I'm like sitting here again. I'm like, Oh my God, I forgot. We're not talking about the thing until like we're way past the thing and like looking at, okay, how do I learn about menopause?

My OBGYN is like, Oh no, you're too young. That's not what's happening to you. Like everything, every time I think I know something that's happening in my body, even female doctors were like, you're wrong. Don't listen to yourself. That's not right. And then I'm like, I feel like this doesn't feel like the right treatment plan for me.

No, that's what works for everybody. And then in fact, it really messed me up. And so I had to go through this whole process again of like, Don't trust yourself. We're gonna make sure that this power is in someone else's hands, and then I got all feisty to like talk with women like you about menopause and like owning the conversation.

So, um, I would love to step into this. Like, what was your catalyst for gathering and then disseminating this information?

Beth: So, like you, I think part of my catalyst was my experience of what was happening in my body. So, around maybe around 40 is when I started noticing Um, some of the shifts, things like 40. I started noticing certain things. And then, um, COVID actually, when I was home during COVID during like the early part of 2020, I was really anxious and, uh, more, you know, more anxious, you know, I think everyone was anxious at that time because we were, there was so much unknown happening.

Um, And I was like more anxious than you know, I'd ever been and I felt really everything felt really uncertain and I started having all of these symptoms like, um, sleepless nights and insomnia and I would wake up with night sweats like drenched in sweat like I had to take my clothes off and completely change my pajamas in the middle of the night and, um, You know, I was like in my early, in my early 40s, so it's like maybe 42, something like that, 43 and, and I was like, what is, what is going on?

It can't just be the anxiety, even though that was definitely contributing to it. So I started reading more and more about, um. You know, all the symptoms that I was having, I was kind of looking them up and then I found the word perimenopause and, um, it just made total sense to me because I was already really familiar with these hormones because I'd been talking about them all the time in my birthing education classes with my clients.

Um, Hormones play a big role in how women feel postpartum. So after they have a baby, um, they lose all this estrogen that's, that they've built up in their body, um, in the placenta. And when the baby's born, we lose all this estrogen. So we feel really, um, moody and maybe even You know, a little depressed or sad or, um, just low mood.

So I've already was really familiar with these hormones. So it made just perfect sense to me like, Oh, I'm going through perimenopause. Like, that's why I'm sweating like crazy. Um, that's why I'm laying awake at night. Like. You know, staring at the ceiling for hours. And also that's when I started like making some modifications to my lifestyle and my diet and trying out different things to see what could be helpful for me.

So that's when I really started like my, my information gathering. That was the catalyst for me.

Christine: Yeah. And I mean, I feel like that is similar for a lot of women when you, when they have that experience, you see them kind of come out to not every women, obvious every woman, obviously, or there would, we would be overrun with. Um, coach about menopause, which is clearly not the case because there's still so many people who, who will not even want to say the word.

And I think that the other thing that is interesting, and I was just talking about something a little similar, um, last week with the guests, but, um, like that this isn't that we have both the hurdle that aging isn't a cool topic, right? Like we all, we all have seen. How women are definitely not supposed to age.

That's the narrative that we've been told for a very long time. I mean, I still remember, like, being young and thinking, like, when do I have to start using oil of olay so that I stay young forever? Like, I literally remember thinking that, like, what age do you start doing that? Like, wow, that's crazy that that's a question.

Um, so, you know, it's not cool. We're not supposed to do it. And then it's uncomfortable. And, um, like, I, I guess what I loved when I kind of heard about the way you were talking about it is like, You have really tried to normalize the conversation, make it a little cool. Like I saw you were having perimenopause parties.

I'm like, Oh my gosh, wouldn't that be a thing? It's kind of like red, you know, red tent ceremonies or things like that. Like

Beth: Yes.

Christine: if this celebration was such a part of our culture. And I think if we look back, you know, way back historically, this was something that women really celebrated and. I actually had a friend, um, when she was pregnant with her third child, we had a red tent ceremony and I mean it was however modern or whatever it was, but she had this huge red tent inside of her home.

All of her women friend gathered, women friends gathered, which there were probably 40 of us and we all sat inside the tent and we all told like birth stories. We all told stories about when we met. Her, we all told, like shared all these things. And as we did, like we lit a candle and we dripped candle wax over this giant candle so that she would light that her intention was to light that when she was invert, you know, laboring with her child.

And I was like, wow, this is insane. What if everyone did this? How much less fear would there be around this? How much more community and celebration? Like you said, like isolation is really kind of what got us. It's a way from this, um, sharing. So like, I wonder how we make it cool again or how we make it accessible or how we help more people feel comfortable with this conversation.

Beth: I think it's bringing it out in the open and doing things like The Red Tent, which, by the way, I love that book. It's like one of my favorite books. I could reread it many times over, just the idea of gathering together and having that sacred time with women to celebrate it. Being female and everything that it encompasses.

Um, I think it's about bringing it out. So with my Perry parties, which is kind of a silly name, and I've definitely heard people, you know, people have said to me like that, I don't like that name or why do you call it that that's, you know, People aren't going to want to come. Well, I haven't really found that is to be the case.

I actually find women that come to the events, love being able to be in community with other women and talking about the things that are going on for them. Usually, you know, I start the Usually we talk somewhat about symptoms because most women don't know what all the symptoms could be for perimenopause.

And so it's very, um, it's very empowering for them to learn that this mystery thing that's going on for me actually isn't a mystery and doesn't mean that I'm sick or something's wrong with me. It actually is, uh, caused by my hormones changing or fluctuating or, you know, lowering. And I can do something about it.

So it's sort of, you know, in that way, it's like giving, like you said, giving that woman the power of knowing what's going on in her body. And it just feels like, uh, I think for a lot of women, a relief and, and being in community and talking about. You know, some of the silly stuff that is, uh, that comes up for us too is really, is really, um, powerful and, and just feels really good to be with other women in that space.

Christine: Yeah,

Beth: So I think we just have to do more.

Christine: yeah, and I think a lot of it too, like just super basic knowledge that I feel like was reinforced even by Western medicine for me, like when, like I said, when I was having symptoms and things and they're like, no, you're too young. I'm like, okay, well that jives. Cause I also somehow in my mind only think women in their sixties are actually going through menopause.

Why? I don't know. But maybe because like when I would watch TV shows when I was younger, women who were or 55 looked like they were 65 or 75. Like there's that difference, but that's, that's this, the narrative that I understood. So when my doctor also said, no, you're too young for this. You have something else wrong with you.

Then I'm just stuck with, I have something wrong with me. And then I finally got into. I, you know, a different conversation with other people. And they were like, no, this, this does match. Let's run your hormones. Let's see where you're at. And they're like, Oh yes. If you look right here, this, these levels all show that actually, yes.

And then the other crazy thing was like, I was like, I haven't had a period for three years. I think like I'm, I've had menopause. Like I don't even know what to tell you. And they're like, no, that can't be true. There must be something else. And I was like, Okay, like I really have to fight for this to be true for me.

And it was really like, kind of going back to what you were saying, like that trust and that like, it was really hard for it to feel like a battle. And I just think the more we also understand that like, there's not a normal, there's not one way for

Beth: No.

Christine: to happen, which we should know because there's no other cycle that happens in women's lives where like two friends have the exact same experience.

But yet, we're still kind of maybe telling women that like, you'll be this age and you'll have these symptoms and then you'll, it'll be this thing. And, um, and we're not really like showing how varied. that experience is and how varied the timeline is based on all these other factors in our lives. So I think that feels really important to me.

Beth: Yeah. And the more we talk about it and the more, the more conversations that we have, the more we will say, we'll be able to say to one another, um, that we actually do know what we're talking about. We do, we can trust ourselves. You can feel confident going into the doctor and saying, yeah, I haven't had a period in three years.

That's technically, I mean, not having a menstrual cycle for one year. Actually means that you've gone through menopause and menopause. The average age in America is about 52, but you can go through menopause. You know, you can start experiencing symptoms of perimenopause anywhere between 10 years before that menopause year.

You don't actually know you're in menopause until you've finished menopause. Like until you've gone through the year of not having your cycle and you can go through six months, eight months, ten months of not having your menstrual cycle and still have another period and that's still not the full year it counts.

It's supposedly a full year. That's like what it's supposed to be. And, um, we. We actually don't need to have a blood test to tell us that we're in menopause. We can just trust that based on the symptoms that we're experiencing in our bodies, that's what's going on. I mean, without ruling out any other symptoms, like you, if you did have symptoms that were, were potentially signs of other illness, absolutely.

You should get checked out for whatever that illness might be, you know, just check out and check that out. And once you rule out that, then. You could attribute those symptoms for sure to the perimenopause menopause journey and you're right, you're right, like we, we don't, um, the idea of least where we come from is that we want to look ageless forever and never, uh, get to the, to look like, you know, the golden girls, like, I don't know if you remember that show, but like they were very much, you know, that was what we thought of was, yeah.

These were older women, but I don't even know how old they were in that show. They were probably like 50 or something.

Christine: yeah, that's funny because that's literally what we were just talking about like as that was my idea of what it must look like to be that age and, you know, how much that shifted and how much like more youthful and like vivacious and strong women seem now that are actually in that age. Um, and I think they were really like 48 to like.

55, which is crazy because yeah, then you look at sex in the city now and like compare and contrast

Beth: Oh my God.

Christine: age. Um, I don't know if that's better or worse cause I'm also still probably not going to be Sarah Jessica Parker, but, um, yeah, it's just like that reframing that what that looks like for women, I think is also really important and really, um, empowering because it allows us.

Um, kind of like when I think when we are our most confident and our strongest and really at the highest potential for us to accept that we are, instead of feeling like we should be on the downhill slope of our lives, we really are just becoming the most comfortable with ourselves. And maybe this journey through menopause is part of that because it's like one of those last times where you are.

You know, really gathering wisdom about a major change in your life, because I think, unless I don't know, oh my gosh, I haven't got there yet, maybe there's another thing I need to learn about in another 20 years, but you know, we, we have these major moments, you know, when we're 10, 11, 12, and then, you know, 18, 19, 20, and then whenever you reach childbearing years, if you have children, and then menopause, like there's these huge evolutions as women, and then, Like, I feel like when you finally feel like you have a hold of things is when you're supposed to be like, Oh, okay, that's it.

But really that, that to me feels like that's changed and I love having conversations like this. And then, you know, the other aspect of your work I love is like looking at your blog and everything is like, okay, here's this for women over 40 and here's this for women over 40. And some people might be like, why do you need to focus on this so much?

And yet I feel like. It's really important that we do so that we continue to say like, all of this exists beyond this point. Like, that's why it's important to say for women over 40, because for so long we've heard like you're going to hit this point and that's it. And we need to know that that, that imaginary line doesn't really exist.

Beth: Right. Yes. 100%. We also need to this time of our lives, this transitional period from maiden You know, motherhood, right? So we're like made in mother. And then we move into this, um, matriarch or crone stage of life. You know, that's like, maybe not an attractive word to think about that. But it's, um, this wisdom time where we're moving from caring for everybody else, because If we have children or if we're, uh, you know, in a relationship, we're probably, probably a major, the major caregiver or a primary caregiver.

And there's so much energy constantly being expended. If you are a young mother or, you know, for so many years, and then our children. Eventually leave the nest or kind of move on or they kind of grow up and become a little bit more self sufficient. And so that often for many women coincides with the time of this perimenopause menopause journey.

And so all of this external energy that's always being spent on other people is now, um, it would be a great time to turn it inward and be able to use some of that energy. For yourself through this transition of life. I know for me. I want to be healthy and vibrant and strong as I'm moving into midlife and beyond.

So I want to be able to travel and do all the things that I want to do. It's that's why I talk about foods to eat over 40 or how we should be exercising over 40 because what you do now Your forties and fifties is gonna set you up for your sixties, seventies, and hopefully eighties. Right. If we make it that long, if we are lucky enough to be able to age to, um, to be in that phase of life.

Mm.

Christine: Yeah. And I think that is, it's also interesting too, cause there's like that. Like you said this family focus or even maybe it's career focus or whatever that is it's this very externally focused period of our life and then Then we do tend to have this energetic space that opens up and I think it's inward but also Community based like I think very much the work that we're both doing is like really wanting to make sure We're not just supporting ourselves In this phase of like growth and wisdom, but other women.

And I think that that there's a few spaces where you find that again, like around maybe these major transitions, but not just such a collective like wisdom sharing. I just feel like it's such a different energy when you get in a room with a group of women who are 40 or 50 or 60, or like, I, I even, I remember traveling.

When I worked for a travel company when I was really young, I was probably in my like early twenties and most of our guests were probably in there. And again, my age is, it's probably skewed. So we're going to call it the golden girls effect. But, um, you know, I, I remember them being like in their sixties and seventies and the wisdom that they would share with me was so cool that I was like, Oh, I can't wait till I.

Like know all of the things and can share it and I'm not so like self centered I guess And so I think it's kind of a cool Shift like even you know sharing in businesses I feel like when you're young and you're like scrappy and you're entrepreneurial if that's where you're at and you're like creating all these things you don't want anyone else to know what you know, and then it's like you get to this point you're like No, I want everyone else to succeed and thrive as well, so I'm, I'm more open to sharing all of this information and I feel like that is a really cool and fun time to be in as well.

Beth: Yeah. Like shifting into the mentorship role.

Christine: Mm hmm.

Beth: Right. Where you're the one with the wisdom and, and, and keeping all of that, but sharing that.

Christine: I mean, I still need lots of wisdom. Let's not

Beth: Mm hmm.

Christine: that there's not anything to be gained. I have a lot more books to read.

Beth: Well, I, um, that's one of the things that I think is, is so amazing about the travel work that it sounds like both of us do really like. Bringing, um, all ages together. I've, um, I, I was, I'm remembering when you were talking about how you're this young, you know, 20 year old and you were doing, um, group trips with women in their 70s, or whatnot.

It reminded me of this experience where, um, I hosted an event, um, that included like a Like a sauna and cold plunge in the lake and, you know, food and women's circle and all this stuff. And, um, two of the women that ended up joining the group were just about 70. So they were like, one of them was celebrating 70 and the other one was like right behind her.

They were like best buddies. And everybody else in the group was like in their forties and fifties. So it's kind of like. There was the, this age gap between us and these two, um, wise elder women that joined our group and we were talking around the group like everyone was sort of sharing a little bit about themselves and kind of things were in which they were like, like a place in which they were.

Struggling or kind of stuck. And, um, everyone mentioned different things. So, but, but definitely the topic of aging was brought up a couple of times and like what I'm looking, you know, someone was like what I look like or what I feel like, or, you know, whatever we worry about wrinkly skin or, or gaining weight or whatever, whatever this is.

And then when, you know, When one of the, one of the, um, older women in our group was her turn to speak, she was just like, this is from our, from my perspective, I look at all of you and think. You know, you're so young and you have so much ahead of you and, and I, and she was saying how, how she feels great and she loves being in the room and loves being with us and, and feels like she loves her life and she is just like, take this moment and like really appreciate how amazing you look and how tight your skin is and all of this stuff, you know, that she was just saying, like, this is the, you know, your, yeah.

You're never gonna look better than this. This is like the best and, um, to us you look amazing and youthful and so it's all about perspective, right? So, however we see things and to, um, hear them sort of sharing that was like really, really great. Um, just a reminder of like, We get so caught up in like where we are and, um, and like our appearance and things like that, that really aren't, they don't mean that much in the grand scheme of our life overall.

Christine: Yeah, and of course, unfortunately, that perspective only ever comes like three steps down the road and it's like, no matter how much you know that, and like you look back at yourself in your twenties or whatever from now and you're like, Oh, if only then. And you're like, but yes, but I'm still, I'm that person for this version of me.

Beth: Mm hmm.

Christine: Why can't I harness that in this moment? I,

Beth: Mm hmm.

Christine: interesting. And then I mentorship I think is important in that like intergenerational wisdom. And maybe that's also something lost as we don't really live in community because we don't, we don't spend time with our grandmothers as often or our mothers or, you know, just within a larger community.

And one of the things when I launched, Lotus Sojourns, I really wanted to actually do something like a mentor trip where every Like 20 to 30 year old woman that signed up for the trip would be partnered with someone who was like 50 or 60 like You know not your parent so it's a different exchange But I felt like I also learned kind of what, just what you were saying, like as I was traveling with people, the way they would see and value something with their reflection and perspective allowed me to see something that I wouldn't get to for a while.

And I, for some reason, at least had enough awareness at that point to like grab ahold of that and realize that that was important. And then the other thing, like, I remember like hiking and being somewhere on a really rigorous trail and I'm like, Oh, I hope these people can make it up the mountain. And then not very far, like I'm the one that's super struggling.

And then someone who I expected to needed to help was like scurrying up the side of the mountain. And I also was like, Oh, ha ha. Good job. Good job. Way to way to like project all of these beliefs about someone based on their appearance or their age. Um, and then like also sentiment set a mental goal, like, okay, that's what I want my life to look like, you know, when I'm at that point in my journey.

So I think those. Um, mixed age experiences are, are really, really valuable for all of those different things. Um, before we get to, well, we're already too far. We're already far in our conversation. Before our conversation ends, I really wanted to talk about to this, um, kind of this idea of, uh, like. re evaluation in our lives and learning to live with a purpose.

And I think when you and I first met, I was again, like looking at women in their forties and fifties from this younger age and thinking what happens to women that it seems like they all like have this, like dump out the apple cart and like jump in, like to life in a different way. And I was like, what is that?

What is that? And now I see maybe it's like the ability to realize where you're out of alignment and also realize like it's now or never. And so people make these big changes. Have you witnessed that in

Beth: Oh, yeah.

Christine: coaching and teaching?

Beth: Yes. Mm hmm. Yeah. This time of life, 45 to whatever, 55, something like that, is a time of tremendous change and transition for most, I would say. People, because I think there's a lot of change in transition for men, too. But in speaking from a women's perspective, there's this huge shift and change in our physical body, in our, um, hormonal, um, experience.

And that affects all these different areas of our, of our body, every system of our body, and also. I don't know about, I can't speak for everybody, but I have talked to a lot of women that I know it's just sort of like, there's just this, um, phrase that a lot of people use. They just don't care that much about what other people think caring less and less about what other people think or what's expected of them, either societally or.

At work or in their home. It becomes more about I've been, um, doing things for everyone else or acting a certain way or behaving a certain way. And now I'm ready to do. I wanted to worry about me now. So I think there's a huge change for a lot of women in this age range and and you see it all over the place.

Huge amounts of transition.

Christine: And I, I also imagine that's why that's one of the largest population of travelers is women over 50, like, and as solo travelers, like, it's like, okay, uh, now it's, it's for me and I'm ready for this growth experience and I'm

Beth: Mm hmm.

Christine: give something back to myself.

Beth: Mm hmm. Yeah, it's time to do all the things that I said I wanted to do when I was younger or I kept putting off because of whatever other reason. Um, I think you face this, this time in your life. You're like, Oh my God, it's now or never. I'm either going to do that thing or it's never going to happen for me. So you see huge amounts of change. It's traveling on the trip. It's getting that divorce. It's, um, changing careers or quitting that job that you've had forever. Um, so much transition.

Christine: Yeah. It makes me just like, imagine like all the fears. It's warrior ness of women just like, okay, enough with that, like slash that, slash that, slash that. And I would see it and I think I was just envious. I'm like, I kind of want to be able to wield that sword in my life now and not have to wait till I have this magic, um, you know, like sense of freedom or this magic disconnect from societal expectations.

Like I was like, I can't wait till I feel whatever that is lift off so that I can just start. Like getting to where I want to actually be. And I think also I find myself trying to give permission to people to do that sooner. Like you don't have to carry that now. I think that's also part of why so many conversations I have on the podcast.

I really try to highlight those moments in women's lives when they're like, Nope, now I'm doing this thing

Beth: hmm.

Christine: because it's, it's just so possible to not Carry those expectations for so long, like there's nothing that says you have to wait till you're 45 to live your life aligned with who you are. Like, you really could start that at 20.

If you have the perspective or you have the comfort with like upsetting the norms and the shoulds and all of that thing. And I have also, because I spend a lot of time in like gathering knowledge in coaching classes, I just did a year long Ayurveda course and there were some women in there that were like in their 20s, like late 20s or maybe even mid 20s and early 30s.

And I was like, Oh my gosh, I cannot imagine having. this knowledge and also this peer group at that age. That's really powerful and so cool.

Beth: Definitely. Yeah. Bravery.

Christine: yeah, yes, that's something

Beth: bravery. Mm hmm.

Christine: Um, one of the last things I had for us to talk about is burnout. And you had just talked a little bit about how, you know, the things you do today impact later us are in our lives later. And when you and I were preparing for this conversation, you know, we were talking a little bit about burnout and how It's how so many people think that's something that just like sneaks up on them and it's something that just happens all of a sudden.

And you know, I think for, for many people, but many women burnout is a part of our journey at some point, but it's not something that happens like overnight. Can we chat a little bit about maybe that mindset around burnout?

Beth: Yeah. I think when we were talking about burnout the other day, um, we were talking a little bit about just, you know, there's been books written about burnout. Um, a lot of people have experienced burnout. It's what, what seems to be the, um, where we, how we get to it is actually a slow accumulation of little things over time that we.

Either ignore or don't do that lead to this sort of event crisis breakdown, burnout experience, right? Because now we have a name to call it. Um, and it's a constant ignoring of our basic needs for lack of like a better description. And I think that, um. You know, some people have done a really great job of, um, distilling down what those things that, um, we could do to avoid burnout might be.

Should we talk about those?

Christine: Sure. That would be great.

Beth: Yeah. So, um, I was, I was mentioning with you, um, the other day about this, um, this book that Emily Nagoski and Amelia Nagoski wrote, um, their two author sisters that co wrote this book called Burnout. And, um, They talk about how Burno essentially, um, became this hugely popular topic from, that they took from one of their other books, a previous book, and they decided, oh, we have to write that previous, um, Book just had a chapter about burnout and how it affected, um, every, you know, the topic of that book.

And they were like, Oh, we really need to write an entire book on burnout because everybody is talking about this with us. And obviously it needs more attention. So women. All over we're talking to them about how they had been experiencing burnout and what could they do about it. And essentially, um, these two authors wrote that we, we need to manage the, uh, these elements that, that would potentially cause us to burn out.

Like, um, Eating properly. So kind of paying attention to like our nutrition and the food that we're taking into our body. Um, exercise was one. So it's like everything, every health coach probably talks about already. Um, but these are, these are basic elements, right? Our exercise, um, our sleeping and kind of the amount of sleep we're getting or the quality of sleep that we're getting.

Um, and then, and, and all of, Many of these things are like our stress, um, disbursement because they, they were all going to experience stress. We can't reduce stress. We could manage it a little bit or disperse it from our body by, um, practicing. Some sort of stress management techniques. And many people use things like exercise to help move some of the accumulated stress out of the body.

Um, but there's also other things that we can do, um, like meditation or, um, breathing practices that might be helpful. And, um, and then like some other things like having hobbies and spending time with friends and, and talking to, um, You know, really prioritizing some of those things in our life that we, we might not be prioritizing. Right. If we're just working constantly and always like doing focusing on our career or. If we're taking care of children and an aging parent, uh, we could experience burnout. It doesn't always have to be about like your career and what you're doing, um, in your career. It could be you're experiencing burnout because you're being pulled in so many different directions, taking care of everybody else's needs instead of pouring something into your tank.

So you're not empty.

Christine: I think it's interesting too, because I think for a while, kind of like people will say busyness is a badge of honor, right? To say like, Oh, I'm so busy that like proves that I have value and worth. And almost the same with like, Oh yeah, burnout, like I'm so, I totally have burnout or I'm burnt out.

Beth: Yeah. I'm so burnt out. Hmm.

Christine: Like if it's something cool to achieve, um, which I'm like, Oh, that's a, that's a whole nother can of worms to like understand culturally why we feel that that's an important way to show up. But as you were talking about stress and I know, you know, for many things. Um, menopause included, like that's one of the things that like you have to reduce stress and you're like, Oh great, well, I can't reduce stress because I'm having hot flashes and I can't sleep at night or whatever, you know, I'm stressed about that.

But the skillset of learning how to disperse, I love how you said that to disperse that from your body is something. That I think especially, and I can only speak from my existence in the U. S., but like I feel like that's something that we don't learn. It's not culturally like meditation or yoga or mindfulness wasn't something that I was taught.

Thankfully, I feel like my kids are having a lot of more conversation in their childhood about it. That I ever was, but like the idea that we can control how it lives in our body is what we can do. And I think that's a really, really valuable perspective shift because then that does give us a little control, like all these things are going to be happening around us, but we can help to make sure it doesn't become a part of our DNA, I guess, so to speak.

Beth: Yeah. And so how do we make sure that the building blocks are in place so that we are able to feel really good and be more resilient so that we can face all of the challenges that continue to come up in our lives? No matter what we're doing, we're going to have external things that will stress. Our stress our lives, stress our bodies.

And so we have to use those building blocks, which is that, you know, the nutrition piece, the, the, um, movement of the body piece, the sleeping piece. So basic, right? And then, um, you know, the stress reduction or management through some sort of mindfulness and community.

Christine: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Beth: connecting with other people, which is like what we're doing here.

Christine: Yeah. So, so good and so important. And it's funny that, um, as you're talking, I just reminded myself of last night when I was going to sleep. And I was like, Oh, I've really taught myself how to go to sleep better now.

Beth: Mm.

Christine: Pardon me. And I was really proud of the awareness of like how to get my body to release and calm down. Cause it had been a real struggle for a long time.

Beth: Mm hmm. I mean, I, I think in a lot of us, um, well, since, since smartphones came to be like a thing, right? Because they haven't really been in our lives for all that long. I mean, I think, you know, what, 2010 or 2011, something like that. So maybe it's just a little bit over a decade and a half now that we've had smartphones.

Um, We have become so connected to a device and to, you know, things like that, that, um, our sleep hygiene is bad because we sit on our, on our, on our device in bed or we're reading this and, and, or we're like, Tuning out, um, watching television at night and not, and, and also we're bombarded constantly with information like news, um, can be very triggering, can be very stressful for a lot of people.

So just the access constantly to, um, information is, is a lot. So we have to really like clean up the sleep by shutting some of those things down early. You know, like getting into a zone, you know, I don't know if you dim the lights or if you have like a ritual of like tea or, um, you know, getting a, having a bath or a shower or something like that.

That's like signaling to your body, but those are all really, um, great ways to move towards a good night's sleep. Mm hmm.

Christine: and I know that we only have a few more minutes before we need to do our rapid fires. But the 1 thing that I have. I had mentioned the Ayurveda study and I know that's something that you, um, have also focused on. And one of the things I thought was so helpful is learning like about digestion and that that's not just food, but like everything that comes into your body, your body has to digest and process.

And so that's, you know, sights and sounds and smells and social media. Like once I had that awareness, I was, I really realized how much those things bog us down. And I wish I could remember the statistic, but it was something about, like, in our childhood, how many, like, points of stimulation per minute was like 10 or something.

In today's children, it's like a thousand. And that our bodies haven't evolved to be able to process that much, to digest that much. And that's why You know, there's all these different things that are happening to us physiologically. And so, I'm sure now I'm going to have to go find the statistics so that I can share it accurately in the future.

But I, I think it's a really powerful awareness.

Beth: Yeah, it's about our balance in our, in our doshik body, right? So we're all made up of a certain, um, certain elements, depending for, in terms of the Ayurvedic, um, Philosophy, right? So we all have a certain mix of the three doshas, right? Pitta, kapha, and vata. And, um, my teachers talk about how our society today is filled with a lot of vata energy.

Wind, space, you know, that's like all around us. So yeah, that's like we, we kind of, everyone has this vata imbalance now. Um, so it's trying to ground that, Um, that windy space element and, and, and balance it for everyone. So yeah, very

Christine: I love that. I don't know why that didn't dawn on me, but as soon as you started saying it, I was like, Oh yeah, our whole world is Vata right now. No

Beth: Mm hmm.

Christine: that's, so I have migraines that my, my teacher was like, Oh, you have just incredibly, well, they're tridoshic, but she's like, you have super Vata migraines.

And I was like, Oh yeah, that may, I mean, all of this stuff lands there. Okay. That's part two. Cause

Beth: Yes. Another conversation. Yeah.

Christine: Um, Okay. Well, I, I loved this conversation so much. I really, I really appreciate that you were able to like jump into all this stuff. I know it's what you love talking about too, but I appreciate someone able to kind of go there with me.

I don't get to talk about this a lot and it makes me happy to at least. Create a space where people can begin to feel comfortable with these conversations and these topics. Um, if people would love to reach out to you to work with you or to travel with you, what would be the best way for them to go about that.

Beth: Probably connecting through my website at Beth Kruger. com. It's K R U G E R. Beth Kruger

Christine: Perfect.

Beth: best way.

Christine: Great. Well, let's do our rapid fire ish questions to

Beth: I'm ready. Thank you.

Christine: What are you reading right now?

Beth: I'm reading a book about, um, it's a historical fiction about Agatha Christie's mysterious 10 day disappearance. So. I'm really enjoying it. It's novel. I forget the name.

Christine: That's okay. I'm sure there's Google, right? In Arvada world, there's Google. What is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?

Beth: Um, earplugs, for sure, because I can't sleep without them in a strange place. Um, and I love, um, something that smells like lavender. That's always a good one for me.

Christine: To sojourn to me means to travel somewhere as if you live there. Where is some place you would still love to sojourn?

Beth: So many places. Um, but Italy is on my list right now. I've been there, but many times, but I've always feel like going back there. Home to me.

Christine: What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?

Beth: Hmm. Um, anything, um, in a tagine or anything flavored with harissa immediately transports me to Morocco. So, um, anytime I taste those spices. Right back.

Christine: Who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?

Beth: My, um, my first, one of my first yoga teachers, actually, her name is Rachel. She and I went on a trip many, many years ago and that inspired me to do my first retreat.

Christine: If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?

Beth: I wonder, oh my gosh, good one. Um, my daughters, can I say two people? Uh, they're my favorite travel companions. I love, I love going new places with them.

Christine: Yeah. I didn't realize that you had, um, daughters as well. I, I love that so many women I know that are, like, really, uh, like, focused on healing women and creating spaces for women have, like, their own little women, so.

Beth: Yes.

Christine: Um, who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize here in this?

space for celebrating women in the industry.

Beth: Well, again, um, two women. I knew that you were going to say this, but I, um, I couldn't just put, do one, but I really actually want to recognize the two women that created the group that connected us, um, Janine Cohen and Catherine Gallagher, who created Women Travel Leaders. I just love the community that they've created for women in travel.

And I think that they're, um, I think that they're, um, They're really inspiring and, um, I love that they've created a space for women all over the world to connect, doing things that they love to travel. And I love supporting other women owned businesses. So it's, to me, it's a great, um, it's a great community and I really appreciate that they've created it.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. And I'm always happy to celebrate them as well. They're, we're, they're an ally of the podcast and we have a lot of overlap in, in the work that we're doing. And yeah, it's a really special community that I'm also very grateful. Grateful for, um, and I'm glad for the connection. So that's, it's really great.

Um, thank you so much again for being here and for sharing this conversation and, um, maybe a, another conversation more around wellness and travel will be on the books, but this is what I was really excited to dive in with you 'cause this is a, a unique space that you hold for conversation. So I appreciate you sharing today.

Beth: Yes. Well, thanks so much for having me.

Christine: Thank you.