Weaving Mindful Travel, Wisdom & The Divine Feminine with Author Rebe Huntman

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Rebe Huntman.

Rebe is a memoirist, essayist and poet who writes at the intersections of feminism, world religion and spirituality. Rebe holds an MFA in creative nonfiction from The Ohio State University and lives in Delaware, Ohio and San Miguel de Allende, Mexico.  She is also the author of “My Mother in Havana: A Memoir of Magic and Miricle” released February 18, 2025. In her book she offers a window into the extraordinary world of Afro-Cuban gods and ghosts and the dances and rituals that call them forth. As she explores the memory of her own mother, interlacing it with her search for the sacred feminine, Reebe leads us into a world of séance and sacrifice, pilgrimage and sacred dance, which resurrect her mother and bring her face to face with a larger version of herself. 

Christine and Rebe discuss:

· The draw of the pilgrimage quest and why that pull is so strong

· Connection and disconnection when we travel and what it’s like when you leave your camera behind 

· Growing awareness of colonization and the deep complexities we witness when we travel 

· Rebe’s new book, My Mother in Havana: A Memoir of Magic and Miracle

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To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website.

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Learn more and connect with Rebe: https://www.rebehuntman.com. Connect with Rebe on your favorite social media network! Instagram / Facebook / LinkedIn

Ready to read My Mother in Havana: A Memoir of Magic & Miracle? Available for purchase on Amazon and Bookshop!

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Looking for ways to be a part of the Lotus Sojourns community? Learn more here!

Find Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community for like-hearted women. Find solo travel trips for women over 50 on JourneyWoman. Follow us on Instagram: @journeywoman_original, @lotussojourns and

Transcript

Women’s travel, transformational travel, sustainable travel, social entrepreneurship

Christine: Welcome to soul of travel podcast. I'm your host, Christine. And today I'm really excited to be sitting down, um, with a guest who's maybe not as common here on the podcast. I have talked to a lot of authors, but this book's a little bit different. But I love it already. I was just admitting to the author.

I hadn't fully finished it yet, but I can't wait. Um, which maybe is even better because I can't ruin the ending for anybody. Um, but I'm sitting down with Ruby Huntman, who is the author of My Mother in Havana. And I believe it was your publisher or publicist or somebody reached [00:05:00] out to me, sent me a brief, you know, overview of what your book was, asked if you would be a guest I'd want to have on the podcast.

And, you know, three words in, I was thinking. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So, um, I'm really excited to meet with you today and share your journey with my listeners. So, uh, welcome to the space. I'm so glad to have you here.

Rebe: Thank you, Christine. Thank you for having me. And I'm really excited to be here with you and your listeners.

Christine: Thank you. Well, just to begin our conversation. Um, I'd love to give you a moment to just introduce yourself. Um, tell us a little bit, little bit about who you are, um, maybe outside of author and then we'll dive into the book.

Rebe: Yeah, thank you for that. Um, I am a, I like to describe myself as a multi passionate artist, um, a person who reinvents herself quite a bit. Um, but I think one of my interests is then finding the threads that [00:06:00] connect those disparate selves in not just myself, but in, in all of us, right? What holds us together.

And for me, one of the things that has really held together the various iterations of my life, which have taken me from teacher to, uh, Latin dancer and choreographer, um, to writer, um, is an interest in thresholds in invitations to kind of test boundaries and see what's real and what's authentic and what's deep.

And what are the things that hold us? We have so many, so much noise coming at us at all times. There's so many things that can buy for our attention. And so one of the things that really interests me is those connections and those deep roots that keep us anchored through all those digressive top notes.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, that's such a beautiful summary. And as you just said that it reminded me, and I haven't really even had time to process it yet, but I'm studying Ayurveda. Um, I've been studying for taking a year long course and [00:07:00] it's, um, really a kind of feminine energy look at Ayurveda. So it's like combining two of my very favorite things is like wellness and this idea of.

Supporting women and women's wisdom and feminine energy. And we were doing an exercise and we were supposed to kind of tap into a moment when we felt like. The most in flow with our soul and where we felt, you know, just so aligned. And we were doing these other exercises. And then she was kind of asking us to just like hear whispers.

And like the one thing it said, like right now in my path, I'm working with my Dharma, which is in. And being in service and being in alignment with that part of my soul. And then the word that it told me, like when I was asking what I'm supposed to be or who I am, and it was the word soul weaver. So as you were just saying that, I was like, Oh, that feels like.

Rebe: [00:08:00] Oh, I love that you said soul weaver. I love that you brought up. You know, weaver and this whole, I mean, it's such a feminine tradition, right, of the weaver as both a symbol, but just this real solid truth that we are, um, our lives are being woven. We are weaving our lives, um, taking the threads that are given us and deciding what to make of them. So beautiful.

Christine: Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I, I feel it really resonated and I guess it shouldn't be surprising, but it's one of those things where it always is surprising anyway. And like, I always just envisioned myself like doing that, right? Like within people's stories, even here on the podcast or as I'm traveling, like I'm always kind of trying to like pull those threads together to make sense, but also to like tell a different story or to see the real story.

So, um, Anyway, all that to say, I feel like we have a lot of alignment. So as we're going into this conversation, this gives our listeners a great, a great [00:09:00] understanding of where we're coming from. Um, well, as I said, I had read the summary that was given to me and some of the things that I pulled from that were, you know, drawn to the mysteries of the gods and saints of modern day Cuba, um, searching for your mother and sacred feminine.

A journey towards a trio of mothers, all those things. I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't wait to get into this book. And then the other thing that it mentioned was a pilgrimage quest. And so that's where I wanted to start, because I feel like for my listeners, that's maybe something that's somewhat familiar.

Um, but I wanted to kind of. Go a little deeper into that. And I wanted to ask you because I'm sure in the context of this book, that's something that comes up. Um, maybe why do you think people are so drawn to this idea of a pilgrimage quest? Um, I think it's something that is really deeply personal, but also, like, resonant and kind of [00:10:00] transcends.

Everyone can kind of access this idea. So I wanted to talk to you about that.

Rebe: Yeah, I love that as a beginning question. And I love that we're starting with the word pilgrimage because, um, to me it's the perfect word to talk about the kinds of travel that I like to do. Um, which is not just visit a place as a tourist, but really go, um, to learn About the culture to learn, um, about myself.

Um, I think about what happens when I get on an airplane and I have this sensation suddenly. And it's so rapid. Whatever was on my brain when I left the ground, whether it was. You know, is the dogs that are going to show up or, you know, I'm worried about this or, um, thinking about my job or just all the things that tether me in place when I am at my home, they vanish and there's just this [00:11:00] expansiveness, right?

Um, where suddenly everything that has defined me and where I feel is so, so important is almost like a. Dot of a pin, right? And I can see that so clearly from the air. And, um, and I think that a pilgrimage is, you know, the etymology of a pilgrimage takes us to the word, you know, foreign or having to get outside of the familiar in order to find out something about ourselves.

Um, I think about the fish that's, you know, swimming around in its um, Bowl surrounded by water, but it doesn't even realize that it's a creature that needs water until you take them out of that environment and that it's like, Oh, I know who I am. I'm a fish and I need water. Um, so I think within each of us, we have these questions that are so deep and personal and, um, that draw us Towards seeking the answers and I think that we need to get out of the [00:12:00] familiar in order sometimes to find the answers to our deepest longings and If nothing else I I mean one of the things there's so many things that I hope readers will get from this book But one of them is the the courage to like really ask themselves.

What are those deep longings? What are the things that you won't really deeply want answers and and how can you have the courage to? You know, to go after them, right,

Christine: Um, thank you. And I'm so glad that you mentioned the etymology of, um, Pilgrim, because that's one of the things I had written in my notes, because I, I don't think I've ever seen it defined before. And, you know, you, you mentioned kind of it being the relationship between inner and outer, which for me, when I look at travel, that.

That's really, for me, what travel is, is a space where you can kind of navigate that relationship. And, and also, like you mentioned, where you're not [00:13:00] bound by all of these rules that define you on a daily basis. And so you can get deeper because you're not worried about, All the, the, those details that consume so much time, but are not truly important in like our human journey.

Rebe: right, right.

Christine: Yeah, so I love that so much. And I, I also just think, um, I don't know, I think of like movies and books and all of the, them that have that theme of pilgrimage and how. I don't, I'm, I'm again like trying to pull this thread, like why are people so drawn to that? And I think of even like how many people, how many women read Wild and then just like saw themselves in that book, even though her journey is not one that truly many people can relate to, but that.

Way that she maybe gave herself the space and time to see who she was and to heal and to just [00:14:00] like be brave and learn to trust herself. And I feel like maybe it's those elements that in ourselves, when we watch other people do that, we, we wish we're a part of our own story.

Rebe: Yeah. And I love that you brought up Cheryl's trades wild because it's a quest that in many. In, in some ways it's very similar to mine in that she was grieving the loss of her mother and grieving the loss of parts of herself too. She had kind of gone astray and was looking to reclaim a sense of wholeness.

And for, for Cheryl Strayed, that was a hike on the Appalachian trail. Like that was what made sense. That was the pilgrimage that made sense to Cheryl Strayed. And I am. interested in the way each of us has our own pilgrimage, right? There are a lot of common pilgrimages that people can sign up for that, you know, are beautiful, but and common, you know, [00:15:00] many people will go to Lourdes or You know, they'll do the Camino, um, but there's all kinds of pilgrimages, right?

We can take that concept and, and, and make it whatever we want.

Christine: Yeah. And the energy of any trip, and this is probably something, um, that also my listeners would relate to, like, you can kind of cultivate that energy. In any experience. So without it, like defining and like planting the flag of my pilgrimage, like you can have that experience as well. And, and maybe even those smaller trips help to get you to maybe that, that bigger journey for yourself.

But I really think the beauty of travel is those moments. And you also never know when you're on a pilgrimage. I think, unless you really set out, like Cheryl Strayed, she probably didn't know in the beginning either that that's what she was doing, right? And I don't know, you can answer if you did, but, um, you set out on this trip because you [00:16:00] feel this thing, or you're, you're, you have this desire, or maybe you really just wanted to travel somewhere, and all of a sudden, it starts happening for you.

And I think that's something I've loved witnessing in guiding women on trips is You know, they think they came on this yoga retreat because they love the outdoors and yoga and they wanted to connect with women. And then all of a sudden, like. Whatever it is that they're navigating in their life becomes super present, probably because those like strings were cut as they flew away from their home.

Um, and then they start navigating that inner journey. And I, I just think it's the coolest thing. Like I want to bring every woman with me on those journeys, which is why I created my company. But because I really believe it's such a necessary part of our experience. to have that kind of deep understanding of ourselves.

Rebe: Yes, absolutely. Um, and I think I love that you mentioned like [00:17:00] that. There's different like gradations of pilgrimages, right? Like there's the big pilgrimage, but there's also what does it mean to go through every day life as a pilgrim, right? Um, versus and I like, I like to contrast the words pilgrim and tourist, right?

Because they're so deeply different. And it's not just with travel, but just with life. How are we approaching our lives? Are we approaching them in this space of deep reverence? Um, for the people around us for, um, you know, the diversity of experience. Are we open? Are we keeping ourselves open to be odd, you know, by the sacred and in the mundane or in the fantastic?

Christine: Yeah. Oh, so good. Okay. I can already tell, like, I'm going to want to have so much more time speaking with you, but one of the, the next things, and I was telling you before we hopped on this call and I'll just share our listeners. I just, I pulled some of the quotes out of the book that as I was reading them, I, they [00:18:00] really just had me take pause or think, or brought me back to something I had already thought about, but brought about in a different way.

So, so I, I'm hoping this will surprise you, but one of the things that really resonated was when you talked about leaving your camera behind the first time you went to Cuba. Um, so I'm going to read this quote, um, or it's kind of a section of, of quotes. Um, the first time I came to Cuba, I left my camera behind.

I wanted to take the island in through my senses. And then you refer to a return trip when you brought your camera and you said, But now that I'm here, I find my relationship with the camera awkward, not only because it's heavy to carry, but because the object identifies me instantly as separate from the landscape and the people I'm here to know.

The act of clicking the lens isolates me further. And then you end the section with this beautiful sentence, that is the one that had me rewind and read again. Um, it says, even the air becomes [00:19:00] a lie, a set of white sheets, sheets flap in the wind, the click of the shutter spills the sheets and erases the wind.

And I thought, whew, okay, this opens like all these thoughts for me. Um, and it really like, it reminded me of, um, well, just this idea first of imagining taking a trip just to let your senses experience it. Um, I don't think most of us today could even begin to conceptualize that because travel and Instagram and sharing have become such an important part.

Like, you know, I don't even know there's the saying, like, if it doesn't happen on Instagram, it doesn't happen or whatever the quote is that I'm butchering. Um, but it reminded me of a guest with a conversation with another guest where she was talking about how if you're taking pictures, then. Um, your brain, which is always looking to [00:20:00] be the most efficient machine it can, will just know, oh, there's a picture.

I don't have to worry about remembering that. And so if you want to remember something in your body, then take the picture, but then put the camera or the phone down and look again. And so let's say you're in the jungle and you're taking a picture of the scenery. Like see it and then attach it to another scent.

So like what does the humidity feel like? Do I hear bugs or birds or frogs? And like that will create an actual memory so that your brain will take it forward. Um, and so there's a few other things. I want to dive in into the context of this, but I wanted to hear from you, like looking back, how differently do you think both of those.

Experiences were, were you present in a way that you couldn't be when you were not documenting it? And like, how does that experience when you took your camera differ in your [00:21:00] memory from the one where you didn't

Rebe: Wow. Um, interesting question. And I think that, um, it's one that's like, probably you picked it out because I feel like that question sits on the edge of so many different right? Like how we navigate the world. And, um, the first time I went, I had no interest in taking pictures. I went there, um, in my, there was 2004.

So it was before the whole, you know, camera phone, social media, everything. Um, but I did have a 35 millimeter camera that I purposely left at home. I was going in my role as a Latin dancer and choreographer. And as the Owner and director of a world dance studio and world dance company outside of Chicago, and I was going with a mission or a pilgrimage.

I wouldn't have used that word, but at the time to really, um, study the origins, uh, the Afro Cuban origins [00:22:00] of the dances that I was, uh, performing and teaching in Chicago. And. It felt like that was enough. That was enough of a project. I was, I, I was so aware of not going as a tourist, right. I was so aware and in my skin of the fact that I was going there for a very specific reason.

I was not gonna be there very long and that all I wanted to do was hunker down and, and study as much dance as I could. Um. And then coming home, I, I, I longed for the pictures. I, because I wanted to talk to people about what I'd seen and I wanted to share and I kind of mourned and I'm also an art, you know, I'm, I'm that multi passionate artist and one of the things I love to do is make art.

So photographs are really beautiful. I kind of mourned that I hadn't done that. So the second time, um, I did allow myself to take pictures and I think it was just being aware. In the moment, kind of like what you were saying, it's okay to take a picture, but be aware that that's different [00:23:00] from experiencing right and kind of to move in and out of that because I couldn't have written this book and I didn't go to Cuba with the idea of writing a book.

The book was a byproduct and it wasn't the purpose of my going. But if I hadn't taken good notes and if I hadn't documented and photographed, it would have been it. Much more difficult for me to translate the experience to my reader, which one of the things that I hope I've I've done and really wanted to do was carry the reader with me kind of on my back or my shoulder so that they're experiencing all of the things I experienced alongside me.

And part of that is allowing them to taste, you know, Cuba and smell Cuba and feel Cuba on their skin. Right. And, um, Yeah. So there's, there's a delicate balance, I guess, is what I'm saying

Christine: mm-hmm

Rebe: um, [00:24:00] uh, observing and taking in and being present and then also having the foresight. Oh, and I, and I want to remember this and I wanted to document it because I want to remember it correctly.

I mean, that's the other thing about being a pilgrim and writing a book about another, you know, yeah. Another culture is you want to get it right, right? You don't want to just make stuff up. So that was very, very important to me to be extremely diligent.

Christine: Yeah.

Rebe: I hope that answers

Christine: Yeah. No, I love it. And I, I have a, a few more like rabbit holes to go down here, but before we do that, it's just was reminding me of another conversation I had with, um, Aubrey can. Canfield in episode 185 for anyone who's listening and wants to go check it out. But I think in particular, that line that you said, you know, where the, um, the click of the shutter stills the sheets and erases the wind, like how much a photograph doesn't tell about an experience.

And. [00:25:00] And, um, I was also taking another class, um, where they were talking about, like, ethical travel photography and, you know, how, as a photographer, like, you know, we, we, we see a thing and we might not realize what we're erasing from the frame that becomes the thing we share that tells the story for the next person.

And so it was just a really interesting idea and you, you kind of mentioned this as well because you talked about the cast iron bells that you saw and how you took a picture of the bells and realize when you show them to friends at home, like they won't hear the sounds and they won't sense the connection to the Afro Cuban religion of Santeria and that they won't it.

Dive deeper and that you're experiencing this. Oh, the other thing you said, you said you're only experiencing this because the Yoruba, Yoruba people were forced across the Atlantic to bring their goods, their gods along with them and song and [00:26:00] prayer. Um, and I just was like, again, I just had to stop and think about that.

That was like one sentence that said so many things to me. Um, which I also want to acknowledge in the book was so beautiful how you You did carry people with you and just kept making me ask questions about how I see things and travel. Um, but it reminded me when I first started my company, I wanted to offer a camera free sojourn because I remembered what travel used to feel like without.

Not even just like it used to be different when you had a camera because you were taking pictures for yourself or your family and you weren't composing. The perfect shot to share on social media. And I studied photography and photojournalism, and I would sit for hours to get the right light, to try to evoke the energy of, you know, some thing I was seeing and it's so different today.

So I, I wanted to allow people to just be without worrying about the photographs. [00:27:00] And then the other thing I did is when people would go home, I would encourage them to gather their friends and their family and like. I call it sojourn sharing and tell them the story without any picture, because also when we tell, when we, we have kind of been taught about slideshows back in the day and you know, you show all the posters and I wanted people to like create a space that goes deeper and ask both the traveler and their community to look beyond the surface and understand the value and complexity of an experience, which is when you look at the bells, like, One, just not knowing they would never hear that sound.

That's one thing. But then you go deeper and you look at why are those bells here? What does that mean in the context of this destination? What's bigger than me in this moment? And I was just like, oh, I can't wait to talk about this. So I'm wondering, one, if that's something that you only realized in reflection or if that's [00:28:00] something you were aware of in the moment, like in that scenario.

Rebe: Oh, you're so kind to think that I can remember precisely what I was thinking about in that moment in 2013. I, I like to think that, um, that I was aware of it at the moment. Um, one of the things that I did during that, um, pilgrimage and, and, um, was the, the, um, uh, I, I wrote a lot. I wrote a lot of my journal every day and because I did want to capture it was such an intense trip and I did so many things and I wanted to record what I was thinking at each point in the time and that was interesting.

Two, because I think one of the things that happens to us on a trip, we're not the same person at the end that we were at the beginning, so maybe that's another reason why it's hard for me to answer the question of when exactly did I arrive at each of these things, because we do change, and the trip changes us.[00:29:00]

I was interested in the way from day to day. What was I thinking? What was I thinking on day one versus day five? And so that act of journaling and keeping track of how I was evolving and what I was thinking about every day, um, was a very valuable process. Um, but, you know, this question of the photograph to and what's lost to me.

I also can't help but think about, um. One of the deep questions of this book is, you know, I went on this pilgrimage because I lost my mother when I was 19 and missed her terribly. Um, and missed her even more after 30 years. So when I was about to turn 50, I found myself missing her more than ever and in new ways.

And some of them inexplicable. Um, and one of the inexplicable ones is, was, I've lost so much of my mother. She felt like a photograph to me [00:30:00] because what I remembered most were the things that I had artifacts for such as photographs. And so a lot of my memory was really just looking at photographs and, and, and only seeing what was in that frame.

And so one of the questions I ask in the book is, how much was outside of those frames of my mother? How much of her had I lost? And those were the pieces that I was longing for and, and missing more at age 50 than at 19. Um, And I was also aware that I had flattened myself in many ways. And so this idea of resurrecting the wholeness of, of my mother and, and who I was, one of the surprises of turning 50 for me was, I had always thought that by the time you were 50, you knew who you were, and you felt like a grown ass woman in the world.

And then I was on the verge of turning 50, and I was like, I think I miss my mom. I am like a 19 year old girl, and so what am I missing? And I think that's where I'm getting to this question of the photograph, right? What's missing outside the frame, [00:31:00] and, and what fills that frame? And that's what took me to Cuba.

Um, although I am not a native of Cuban of Cuba, I had spent enough time there that I knew instinct instinctively, um, and surprisingly and inexplicably, I knew that the answer to what fills the frame was waiting for me there.

Christine: Um, I love that you were reading my mind my question was why Cuba and how did you know that that was where you were going to look for the answers and that also kind of ties into my story. Well, there's two things. One, thank you for saying you still don't know. About yourself when you're 50, um, because I'm 48 and I'm still like, I'm like, I thought we'd figured this thing out by now, but I was like, I think I'm learning that maybe we don't ever figure it out and now we can, like, turn the pressure off on arriving because that's not [00:32:00] happening, I guess.

Um. It's a dance. I'm in the middle of and the second of the destination. Um, I always tell people when they can't stop thinking about a place. It's because the place has something for them. And especially if it's a place that you're like, it doesn't make any sense that I keep hearing and seeing that place everywhere.

And, um, for me, at a certain point in my life, it was Guatemala. And yeah, Again, it was a place that I was like, well, I've heard of it. I've been to Belize lots of times. I know where it is, but I don't know why I just, every time I would think about it and even now I would feel emotional and I would feel like a sense of longing and just like a pull from the universe, even though at that time I maybe didn't have any kind of language for that.

And, um, and [00:33:00] Slight, just a few years before I went, I think I lost my grandma who was like one of my most important people and I'm going to get emotional. I'm not sure why in this moment, but, um, I just, I had to go. And like, there was nothing not like if I said no, it just wasn't an option, you know, like it just kept pulling me there.

And when I got there, like my grandmother was everywhere and she had no ties to Guatemala. That I, I don't, I don't know what, why that was the place other than when you look at the culture there that the Lake Audit lawn is like this sacred place where they believe it's like the belly button of the earth and where all the planes is.

Connect in that space and you know, we did this meditation and I just, like you, I just, I wanted to see my grandma and I just wanted to like [00:34:00] feel her and like had this beautiful meditation where she came and she was holding me as a baby, which is something she surely did, and just like told me that she always would be there holding me and it was so beautiful.

And then the next place we went, this woman that was there to translate like just was my grandma. Again, like kind of looked like her, but she was a seamstress who really valued her craft and a weaver and my grandmother was a great sower and baker and like I just hugged her and wept and I was like, she just knew and like was there to receive.

This exchange and like all these places that she kept showing up. So it just reminded me as I was reading this, like, I was so curious if you knew why you were going there. I mean, I know you were looking for your mother and this story, but like, did you know why Cuba?

Rebe: [00:35:00] So, wow, you said so many things in there that

Christine: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm really bad at that. Oh,

Rebe: I love, first of all, let me back up to one comment that you made, which was how much pressure we put on ourselves or that you were going to release the pressure of trying to figure out who you were before you were 50.

And I love that you use the word pressure because I feel like we put so much pressure on ourselves know things, you know, up here logically, um, to be a certain way to have arrived, you know, somewhere. And, um, one of the things that Cuba gave me and, and I hope this book gives readers is a much more zoomed out, um, look at who we are, um, and that, you know, we're just human beings down here and we're learning and we're on a journey, but we have guides.

And, and that I think ties into your second question, which is, um, why Cuba and did I [00:36:00] know why Cuba at the time? And, um, I both did and didn't, you know, when you speak about these inexplicable yearnings and longings and, and You know, deep calls or draws, uh, being drawn to a place. Um, I don't know why, you know, as a child, I chose Spanish, you know, and became a fluent Spanish speaker instead of French or German.

I just knew it like that. I was drawn to the language. Um, and I was drawn to the dance. I had, uh, thought I, when I was a child, I wanted to be a ballet dancer and that lasted for one class. And then I, I was, Probably the fastest ballet dropout ever. Um, because while I knew I yearned for dance, that was not my particular form of dance.

It's a beautiful form, but it was not for me. And I felt that in my body, my body felt allergic to it. Um, And then when I was 17, in the most inexplicable, [00:37:00] again, strangest of situations, my mother was already sick with cancer at the time, and my father, um, showed some kindness in signing them up for some ballroom dance lessons, which is something she'd always wanted to do, and he'd always resisted, and they invited me to see them, and this is in the book, this is, you know, um, because it's part of the story of this poll, and, um, They invited me to come and watch them dance a tango showcase at a Fred Astaire dance studio in suburban St.

Louis. So it couldn't be further from Cuba and the Afro Cuban gods and mother saints and all of that. Um, it was pretty cheesy. There was lots of glitter and, and, you know, lights and, and crazy costumes and, and everything. It was not, um, it was not Cuba, but. I heard the Latin rhythms there, I heard the Afro Cuban music there for the first time and something lit up inside of me.

And it [00:38:00] was this feeling that I don't have words for. What I say in the book is that it was, ah, this is it. Like, this is what I've come, like, I don't know, I can't attach words to it, but this is what life is. This is, there's something here for me. And that set me on a course of becoming a professional Latin dancer and choreographer, which took me to Cuba, um, where I, I met, um, choreographers there who introduced me to the real Cuban dances that trace their origins to the spirit world and the ability to call the gods forth through dance and movement.

And again, my body went, ah, and, um, Being, you know, I was a choreographer, so I was very centered and this will get back to the selfie idea and this idea of perfection, right? I was really steeped in the idea of, of being perfect and, um, creating spectacular performances where we trained really hard to get things just right.

And then in Cuba, I was [00:39:00] introduced to this whole other level of dance where it's not about showmanship and it's not about. impressing anyone or getting it right in the sense that we think of getting it right, but getting it right in terms of tuning your body to the rhythms and the cadences of the gods so that you become vehicles to invite them.

Um, Down to earth to spend time and share wisdom with you. And that was pretty mind blowing and pretty life changing. So that was 2004. And then fast forward, you know, nine years later when I'm having this existential crisis of who am I, I miss my mom. She's not here. I don't remember her. What am I missing? Um, It was in that moment that I opened up a book in the library at Ohio State, and again, Cuba was there, and I read about the Divine Mothers, Oshun, and Our Lady of Charity, and the big celebrations in Cuba, and reverence toward these [00:40:00] mothers, and I remembered watching those dancers, and I thought, there is something there.

There is something there. I don't know what it is, But I need to go and explore and, and see, um, see what kind of answers I can get. And, and in terms of, you know, you asked earlier, was I aware at the time that I was getting answers or how much was I aware at the time? It took me 10 years after coming back to unpack the experience.

And that's, um, I think can happen when you ask your soul's deepest questions and the messy ones, right? The ones that don't seem to make sense, right? Um, but you have to keep pulling at that thread to see why it does, right?

Christine: this is so good. Okay. Um, I just was thinking a couple of different things in there. And I love that we keep talking about threads. This is. [00:41:00] Like my current message from the universe. So thank you. Um, but the, um, when you were talking about the kind of how that landed in your body and, and knowing who you were, it reminded me, and I should have looked while you were talking, there was this.

This moment. I don't know if it was on the second trip now. I can't remember where you ended up being pulled into a dance, um, with someone and, oh, I really want to find it because it's one of my favorite lines and this is me being a really bad podcast host right now. Um, Okay, well, one was, um, the line of, like it said, you were coaching from the sidelines.

So this, like you were talking a little bit about your choreography and it feels really weird now to be talking to you about the thing I just read about you as if it was a different person. Um, but it says, um, it was harder. So much more fun to be the one [00:42:00] dancing, to be the woman who knows the edges of her body, the movement of blood and breath as they course beneath her skin.

I was like, man, don't we all want to know that moment? Like that kind of goes to this thought of knowing who we are and the, the, this 50, you know, threshold. And I think maybe that's why that stood out to me so much as I was like, what a, what a. Um. A moment to just, like, feel that about yourself. So that really resonated for me and I just thought it was really beautifully Stated and I imagine a really powerful moment.

Um, and then the other thing was, um, in that same kind of scenario of you said, um, how wondrous, I think, to leave the girl hiding behind her journal and become the woman who dances four and a half minutes with and health from the right. [00:43:00] Um, and then to like find that larger version of self waiting for you to fill the contours and I was like, Oh, this is why when I got on here, I was like, this has to be a book club book because these are those, those statements that just give us a lot of permission to take up that much space too. And I just, I was in love with this section of the book.

Rebe: Oh, good. You know, I love the word, I love the word, uh, permission. I think this book was so much, um, for me, the experience of going there, the experience of writing the book, the experience of talking about the book, is such an act of permission and hopefully inviting others to give themselves permission.

To really live a much larger, messier life, [00:44:00] whether that's, you know, stop taking selfies and start taking pictures of things you're really in love with just for the sake of, of loving them, you know, to, you know, that moment, you know, you're referring to a scene where I'm in a, in a nightclub in Havana and I've been, I've spent, you know, a decade of my, of my adult life training dancers in how to do things, which then, you know, puts you in the position of being an expert.

She who knows all. Right. And there's a safety in that. There's a real safety and sitting on the sidelines and being like, yeah, you do that. You do that. You do that. Right. And, but just the exhilaration of letting go of that and being like, yeah, all I want to do is spin here. Right. I want to join the dance.

I want to be part of the dance. I want to experience life. I want it to just, I want to feel it with my whole body and not be separate from, but really, uh, firmly planted in, in life. And, yeah. And and I think that's so [00:45:00] important for all of us. And I think it's important for us as women. I know for myself, I grew up thinking I had to be perfect and that there's a list of things that that you need to achieve in order to be that perfect version of yourself.

The mirrors in the dance studio only reinforce that, um, to stop looking at the way you look in the mirror and start really paying attention to the way you feel inside, which then gets me back to this idea of following our instincts, even when they seem to be carrying us to places that don't make sense, but really.

No, I hope that your listeners are feeling a sense of permission to follow their own impulses and their own intuition. Because again, in a very, um, in a very linear, analytical, very male, patriarchal world, we're taught to be suspicious of our intuition, right? To be [00:46:00] suspicious of those places where things don't logically line up.

And I think that's where our greatest experiences lie are right there.

Christine: Yeah, we're reading on our best behavior by Elise Lunen, whose podcast perfectly is called pulling the thread. I mean, nothing should be lost on us at this moment, but that's important. But she talks so much about the, the patriarchy and that, that like orderliness and, and how much that allows or not allows, um, creates, uh, a pattern within which women stop trusting that part of themselves.

And it's like the most powerful part of ourselves. And there's a long backstory about why that space was really perfectly created to. Keep women from feeling that power. Um, and I, I also think, you know, now, you know, 200 and some episodes into this [00:47:00] podcast and hearing so many women tell their story, you know, however it ends up in their life, there's this moment where so many of them. Chose to trust that voice. And for many of them that led them into whatever aspect of travel, because that's their soul's calling, which is why this is the soul of travel, right? Like, um, so, so important. So I love that you brought that up. Um, I think I, I just think it's, um, for people who maybe are still trying to stay in line or stay on that line.

Um, especially now, like, man, I want women, like, jumping off that line, like, let's give everyone permission if they feel so called to just be brave enough to, to like, to, to do that for themselves. Um, Yeah. Uh, [00:48:00] okay. So the next thing or the last thing would probably be the last thing for us that I really wanted to talk about because you've mentioned, um, uh, and did you pronounce it?

Oh, tune.

Rebe: Oh, soon.

Christine: Oh, shoot. Um, okay. So I, as I was researching you and the book, like that was the word that like kept jumping off the page for me initially, like before I even started reading and kind of knowing it. Yeah. Yeah. What kind of a person she was in your journey. I think because like in my yoga studies and Ayurveda studies, and even in my trip to Guatemala, like goddesses and this women's wisdom and healers and feminine mystics, like all of that have been like.

The people I kind of see floating in my periphery that I always want to know more about, but still keep myself like distanced from, um, so I loved this and I wanted to read one more part of the book. There's one more thing. Okay, hopefully we're going to get there. Um, but this is one of the things that I read and.

Um, it [00:49:00] says, um, it is Oshun's sensuality, her willingness to be present and attentive to her own body that most characterizes the river goddess and her devotees. They are beautiful, not because they measure up to someone else's ideas of beauty, but because they measure up to their own. Because they remember, as Oshun does, to revel in their own way of moving through the world, to fulfill the promise of who and what they can be.

Which really, I guess just summarizes what we were just talking about and is probably why it was so resonant, but I'd love to hear from you more about why she was so important in your journey.

Rebe: So, um, when we think about threads, I can, I were, all these threads are connected, this idea of keeping ourselves as in line as women or as men, or, you know, um, of wanting to, you know, that within the parameters of who we've been told we can be and whatnot. [00:50:00] Um, and also with grief, like if your mother dies when you're 19, the instructions I received were you're supposed to get over it as quickly as possible, right?

You get a certain amount of time and that. Amount of time is different for everybody. Right. But what to do when you're a 50 year old woman who still misses her mother. Right. And when you have this incredible call and, and I, I think that we put a lot of pressure on both ourselves as, as women, as people and on our mothers, as you know, our mother is supposed to be everything, right.

We have all these ideas of what the mother should be. Um, and she can't live up to them no matter how good she is. Right. No matter how perfect she is, she's going to die, for example, um, like my mother did. And so, what Oshun offered me, and the invitation of Oshun to the readers who want to get to know her through the book.

Is her whole, the conjunction that I, [00:51:00] um, attached to her, if in U. S., in my U. S. upbringing, in my particular time and place was, you can be this or you can be that. So the conjunction or. Oshun's gift to us is and. You can be this and this and this and this, and she holds that she's capacious enough because she appears to us in so many different forms, um, and gives us permission to move into.

I mean, she can be really kind and nurturing and usher children into the world, and then she can be really ferocious and a real slap in the face, right? She, um, she can appear as a mermaid. She can appear as a deaf, you know, woman, um, weaving at the bottom of the sea. She can appear as a vulture. She has all these different guises.

And not only is she, divisible a million different ways, offering us a million different ways that we might [00:52:00] choose to move through the world. Um, she teaches us that. She's in Cuba, syncretized with another mother figure, Our Lady of Charity, who is a Catholic icon, a Madonna figure, a virgin, chaste, and while Oshun is the, the deity of love and fertility and sensuality.

And for many Cubans, they hold these two mother figures as if they were one, as if they were cut from the same cloth, connected with the same thread. And that was one of those mysteries that I found incredibly compelling, and I hope my readers will too, is thinking about what kind of a universe Would we live in if we had in that expansive a view of, uh, who the mother is, um, who is watching out over us, this mother guardian spirit that is holding us all that is that big and who we might be if we tap into that energy of [00:53:00] possibility.

Christine: Okay, so good. Um, again, I'm like imagining like holding space for women and just like having this conversation and walking them through and sharing some of this wisdom. It's like, it's so beautiful and also reflecting on my studies and how many different cultures have a goddess or a feminine icon who is like the shape shifter. And It has never landed on me to hear that and, which was beautiful. I could see them morphing, but it never landed on me. I always thought like, that means they can speak to you wherever you are on your journey. But I didn't think about the fact that that means. That I can also be that fluid in my own expression of self.

And that feels also [00:54:00] like a beautiful, beautiful gift, as you were saying. So thank you, Her, for sharing that.

Rebe: Yeah. And I love, I love that you used the word fluid. It's a fluid invitation. It's an invitation for us to step into every possibility.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, before we go, because it, it, it was another, um, word that, that resonated. Um, and I'm not gonna say it correctly, so A J E. Heh heh heh.

Rebe: Oh, the Ajay. Uh huh.

Christine: Thank you. Yeah, I just want to hear more about a little bit more about that. And I didn't write the quote where you were talking about, you know, when you were learning the definition of that.

And in the context of a lot of people tied it to the idea of being a rich or having that identity. And so it was hard for you to kind of begin to navigate that. But I wanted to hear a little bit more from you.

Rebe: Yeah. So if you look it up in an [00:55:00] English language dictionary, you will find the word which, which is a flattening or, um, you know, it doesn't tell the whole story, right. Leaves a lot outside the frame. Um, the Ajay are, it's a concept. Um, it's a Yoruba concept. Um, And it's the idea that there are women, powerful women, women with great power, right?

With great magical power, with great wealth, with great, um, leadership abilities, you know, all the different ways that we can think about power and there are mothers and there are grandmothers and there are sisters and there are these, these wise, powerful women in our midst. There are ancestors, um, who are guiding us, but they're also our own mothers and grandmothers and aunties and sisters.

And so you never know when you might find, you know, you might have an Ajay in [00:56:00] your midst and it could be anybody. And you, so you better not. Underestimate a woman and her power because the, in, in the Aruba sense are believed to, you know, hold their power in a ash, which is like a, a pumpkin, right? They're able to turn themselves into birds.

Um, and exact, you know. if needed, need be exact revenge. So it's just this really beautiful. I just love it. Um, this idea that you never know, don't misunderestimate a woman. We are all more powerful and more mighty than we're often times thought to be.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, I'm so good. Like the whole conversation. I just like wish I was underlining and exclamation points and like sticky notings on my wall. Um, it's so good. This is really nourishing for me. Um, and I think. You know, in that too, like looking at [00:57:00] that from the idea that not to miss, not, not to underestimate ourselves.

Right. I think that's another thing, like even, and I know many women who I think could carry that title. Well, um, it takes a long time for us for many reasons to feel brave enough to claim that, um, again, I feel like this is such an important conversation for today, so I'm so grateful that we're having it, um, to, to allow ourselves to feel that powerful and not dismiss it.

So the same as the intuition, I think we've all been conditioned, and this also goes to Elise Lunen's beautiful book, to just quiet that right back down. And I know, I remember having conversations with people and they're, That I met probably 10 years ago, and [00:58:00] they're like, you're so different today. I'm like, well, I've been doing a lot of work in the context of this conversation.

And I said, when you met me, my biggest goal in any room was to be invisible. And at some point along the lines of Guatemala, like the universe came to me and said, enough, like this is the year that people will hear and see you. And I was like, I am resisting that with everything I have. And that's the year the podcast came.

And that's the year so many things happened where I just constantly had to use my voice and I had to put myself out there. And. Like begin to tap into some of this energy. And I just, again, here's our permission word, but I want to invite women who have felt like they have just [00:59:00] had to tamper that down to just like pop the top off.

And like the more of us that can embrace that, the better that we all are as men and women, and as humans to let all of us just be our. Biggest, boldest, loudest, dancing est, you know, selves. I, I, I think, um, that that's really in reading this book. That was the energy that I felt and the invitation I think I have for people listening.

Rebe: Oh, I love that. And I, and I hope that your listeners after, after we finish this podcast, we'll put on some. Beautiful music and, and, and dance and meditate on, on what it means for them to feel truly alive.

Christine: Yeah. Oh, so good. And it just says you were, um, speaking, um, one of my past guest names like landed, um, Michaela Malozzi, who is a dancer and she, [01:00:00] um, tells the story of the world through dance. Like she, she has a travel show and that's how she engages and interacts with community. So I, I think. I'll tie that thread together for the two of you to, to meet, or you can at least listen to the episode.

But I think that would be a beautiful connection. Um, before we go, I have a few rapid fire questions. Uh, the first one is what are you reading right now? We all know what I'm reading because I'm reading your book, but

Rebe: I have my book on my lap. Um, you know, I am reading a lot of Cuban authors, um, and Ruth Behar, who writes middle, middle school, um, books, um, that I don't know if I'm a middle schooler or not, but they're, they're brilliant for adults as well. Um, and the poet Richard Blanco, who was, um, Obama's, um, inaugural, uh, presidential poet.

Um, so I, I'm just really on a deep dive into, [01:01:00] um, really beautiful Cuban literature right now.

Christine: I love that. And also, middle grade books

Rebe: The best.

Christine: best. I mean, all I really know that's true about women over 40 is that we read middle grade books. That's where we're at. I just downloaded a bunch for my daughter in middle school and I was like, Oh, I'm going to read that one and I'm going to read that one.

Um, so I love that. Um, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?

Rebe: My laptop.

Christine: Yes. Um, to sojourn is to travel somewhere as if you live there for a short while. Where is someplace that you would still long to sojourn?

Rebe: Mmm. Um, I'm, I, Bhutan.

Christine: What do you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?

Rebe: Mmm. Uh, plantains. Sweet plantains. Connects

Christine: Food. Yeah. Who was a person who [01:02:00] inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?

Rebe: My father, who I had a very problematic relationship with, but God bless him. He really instilled this love of travel and I'm so grateful.

Christine: If you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?

Rebe: That's a tough one. So I want to say, I mean, just, I don't, Albert Einstein, um, popped up. I don't know if he'd be a fun traveler, but he. would hopefully be a good hang and a great conversationalist and I would learn a lot, right? Um, and then Toni Morrison, again, not sure what kind of a traveler she would have made, but I just, you know, uh, love her, her words and her thinking so much.

Christine: Yeah, to have other people's eyes to see the world through is, I think, a real beautiful gift, and [01:03:00] that's why I love group travel, too, is because you get not only your own, like, perspective on a journey, but you always get someone else's, too. Um, okay, the last question is Typically, I ask who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize in this space.

And I know you're not really in the travel industry, but I definitely want to give you the opportunity if there's a woman that you admire that you would like to celebrate to share who that is.

Rebe: Yeah, I have two answers for that. One is all of the women, um, in Cuba who are men and women, but a lot of them are women who are currently opening up their homes as bed and breakfasts, um, their private businesses and, um, And it's just so beautiful and such a beautiful way to travel to Cuba for those of your listeners who might be interested in going is to go that route and stay in people's homes.

And again, many of them are headed up by women. So I want to give a shout out to all of [01:04:00] them. And the second one and and is a shout out to Jane Goodall, who I think you've got a beautiful quote on your website. Of hers, right? That, you know, what you do makes a difference, and you have to decide what kind of difference you want to make.

And I think that's what we've been talking about, right? Each of us and our unique well of experience and longing. What is it that we want to do while we're here?

Christine: Yeah. Oh, I love that you mentioned her. She's like my dream guest. I keep trying to call her in. Um, well, thank you so much for this conversation. I'm, they're always really special, but man, this was like landing in a space with like the dearest friend I've never met yet. And I really value this conversation and I hope people listening.

Just take away so much and then pick up your book, which we've hardly mentioned. But again, it's my mother in Havana and it'll be linked on my, my website. But I think, um, this conversation really [01:05:00] can help people understand, um, why, why this would be such a powerful book to read. And, and I'm, I'm really grateful also to the universe for connecting us in the way that, what, that it did.

Rebe: Thank you, Christine. And thank you to your listeners. I, it has felt really special being here and, um, and, and being here and imagining, you know, your, your readers who are, and your listeners and, and being with them today and being with you. I've loved every bit of this conversation. Thank you so much.

Christine: Thank you.