Thinking Bigger and Investing in Women with Sarah Dusek

In this episode of Soul of Travel, Season 6: Women's Wisdom + Mindful Travel, presented by @journeywoman_original, Christine hosts a soulful conversation with Sarah Dusek.

After selling her first travel company, Under Canvas, in 2018, Sarah Dusek launched Enygma Ventures, a US-based venture capital fund to invest in Africa’s talented female entrepreneurs and contribute towards rectifying the great funding imbalance. Over the last 5 years, Sarah’s work has impacted over 10,000 entrepreneurs who have gone through Enygma’s investor-ready programs. In her new book “Thinking Bigger: A Pitch Deck Formula For Women Who Want To Change the World,” Sarah shares the challenges of her own journey building a $100 million company and shares the critical building blocks needed to scale any business. Sarah is also the Co-Founder & CEO of Few & Far, a net positive travel/climate company investing in large-scale regeneration.

Christine and Sarah discuss:

· The ways in which internalized beliefs stop women from dreaming and “Thinking Bigger”

· Sarah’s journey with Enygma Ventures and how she found her way to investing in women’s businesses in South Africa

· Thinking Bigger and how we can change the opportunities and outcomes of women in business

Join Christine now for this soulful conversation with Sarah Dusek.

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Tess Millhollon and the HerHouse team are excited to help make travel easier, safer, and cheaper for women across the world. Support the Kickstarter here!

To read our episode blog post, access a complete transcript, see full show notes, and find resources and links mentioned in this episode, head to the Soul of Travel Website. 

Make a difference by making a donation to Lotus Sojourns on Buy Me a Coffee. Click here to subscribe to Apple Podcasts, so you don’t miss the latest episodes!

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Visit www.sarah dusek.com.

Connect with Sarah on your favorite social media network! Instagram / LinkedIn

Learn more about the opening of the luxurious Few & Far Luvhondo.

Get your copy of Thinking Bigger A Pitch Deck Formula For Women Who Want To Change the World. 

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Looking for ways to be a part of the Lotus Sojourns community? Learn more here!

Find Lotus Sojourns on Facebook, or join the Lotus Sojourns Collective, our FB community for like-hearted women. Find solo travel trips for women over 50 on JourneyWoman.

Follow us on Instagram: @journeywoman_original, @lotussojourns and @souloftravelpodcast.

Credits. Christine Winebr

Transcript

Christine: Welcome to Soul of Travel podcast. Uh, this is another episode in my return to Soul of Travel podcast series, which I'm so excited. It's been really great to reconnect with some of my past guests and see where their journeys have taken them since we last chatted.

Um, today I'm very happy to be, be bringing back Sarah Dik. Um, when we last connected with her, she had recently sold her business under Canvas and was in the early days of her business, enigma Venture. And if you wanna hear that part of her journey, you can go back to episode 38, which I shared back, um, in August of 2021, um, which seems like so long ago.

And, um, of all of my return guests in this series, I feel like your evolution seems to have been the greatest from a creation standpoint. Um, you, like I mentioned, you had just recently sold Under Canvas, started Enigma Ventures. Uh, we were just kind of beginning to understand what that looked like in that moment.

Um, since then you have written Thinking Bigger a Pitch deck formula for women who want to change the world, which I was so excited. I was like, oh my gosh, that's the perfect book for so many people in my sphere. Um, and then also recently launched a new company, few and far. Um, I was saying before we got on here, I feel like I wanna catch up before we get on this episode and catch up, but we get to do that now with all of my listeners.

So Sarah, thank you so much for joining me for this conversation.

Sarah: is my pleasure. It's so wonderful to see you again and be back here. I can't believe it's been. four years. That's crazy.

Christine: Yeah, I, I can't believe it either. 'cause it feels like I haven't even been doing the podcast that long. And interestingly, for this series, I ended up pulling all people from the second season of the podcast. So it's all been since that, that 20 20, 21 timeframe, um, that we've talked. So obviously many of us have gone through many evolutions since that point. Um, for, uh, our listeners who maybe haven't heard from you, I'd love to just give you a minute to kind of do a quick introduction and, and let them know who you are.

Sarah: Yeah. I am Sarah Dusek and I am a serial entrepreneur. I am an investor. I'm an author. I. A mom, a wife, and I absolutely am obsessed with travel. Um, when I, I built a company called Under Canvas in the us, um, which I was lucky enough to be on a journey with for about a decade growing and scaling across the US we sold that business in 2018.

And I thought at that point in time, my founder days were done and my travel days were also done. But it seems like neither of those two things are true because we just launched a new travel company last year called Few and Four. I am now the co-founder of Few and four.

Christine: Yeah. Um, and I love the, the entrepreneurial spirit that you have and your vision. So many people, when they come to me and they say they're interested in getting into the travel industry, I. Interested in entrepreneurship, curious about how to get funding. Like I send so many PE people on your path. I'm like, just go on podcasts and Google her name, and I'm sure you're going to find the conversation that you're looking for. Um, I feel like we can learn so much from all that you've done. And, um, my other favorite thing is that you and your journey seem so relatable. I think a lot of times when you're seeking advice or wisdom or trying to learn from someone else's journey, sometimes you can't see yourself in their journey.

And it's really hard to say, oh, I could do that too, because they seem like they have, you know, all of these different things that help them along their way. And for me, I really feel connected to your story and so it makes, I. It seemed possible for me and I really value that. And maybe some of that comes from our brief intersection and overlap in Montana, which makes it very connected and relatable to me.

But I honestly, just from all the conversations I've been lucky to have with you, either through the podcast or in other kind of communities and interactions that we've created between then and now, I just, I always feel like I can learn something from you and easily, um, use that in my life. And I don't find that always as possible.

I don't know if, for you, do you feel, have you ever heard that from anyone before or do you feel like you present yourself in a way that you're trying to be more authentic and relatable, or it just happens to be a coincidence?

Sarah: Well, I'm

Christine: I.

Sarah: not trying to be authentic and relatable. Um, I guess, um, I, I do understand pain points. I do understand my own pain points. I've done a lot of work over the last years, particularly of, um, understanding myself understanding. Um, the common things that I bump up against, which I have come to realize not alone in.

if something, I mean, even as I was building under canvas, we based that whole business on the idea. If this was a problem for us, um, and we were meeting our own needs, chances are there were people like us, um, whose needs we could meet through our own business ideas. so this idea that we are more alike than we are different is I, is, is true.

I think it's universal and the, the things that most of us struggle with, uh, and that the issues that we all bump up against, we are all those, those are the, those are the same. We are, our humanity has that in common. And so, um, I think often what doesn't happen is. When solving, you know, when people have, have theoretically become successful in the world's eyes, they often don't understand their own journey and don't understand how they got where they got.

And, and the difficulty of that and breaking that down and making some of the complex things simple, um, a skill. Um, but it's also something that I think is super important if we don't want to leave certain segments of society behind. And for me, my focus has often been in, in supporting and empowering women and recognizing that often we are not included.

Often we don't know the rules of the game. We don't know, 'cause we've not been taught or not been in the rooms where these things have been shared or spoken. And so that for me was one of the very big impetus while why I wrote a book, um, last year that came out in September, which documents my own journey of growing and scaling under canvas.

this idea of sharing some of the insights hopefully in a very practical, understandable, relatable way and realizing, you know, actually if I can do it, other people can do it too. and, and what are some of the, some of the things and some of the lessons that I learned of along the way that hopefully will be helpful to other people.

Christine: Yeah. Um, well I kind of wanna touch on Enigma Ventures 'cause I think that is such a great. Example of what you were saying of of ensuring that women are a part of the conversation, are a part of the game, are a part of those creating change. Um, I was doing a little digging before our conversation to, to see where you were from then to now, and it, um, was so amazing to see that over the past five years, and hopefully this is a still accurate statistic that you've invested $10 million in funding in

South Africa, um, which I just, I'm, I'm so inspired by and I'm so inspired by your, like, very specific and direct mission, which I think, um, there's two ways I wanna go with this, but I'm gonna, I guess I'll start here.

Like, so many of us have this, um, this thing within us, that's our driver, right? That really. Like powers what we wanna do and create in the world. And for me, this driver is really what I think is kind of this soul of travel. It's this soul of our action and it can take so many different forms. Um, and then on your LinkedIn profile, I jotted this down 'cause I was like, oh gosh, she's such a, a kindred spirit. But it says, I believe passionately empowering women to reach their full potential and enabling them to grow in their leadership. And this commit commitment extends to my broader mission to help grow scalable, sustainable businesses that have the power to transform community, cities and nations. And for me, I just am curious about like when you had the clarity that that was your driver and then how that kind of led you to Enigma Ventures.

'cause I know for me it took a while for me to realize I. Everything I was doing was also coming from this place of creating visibility for women and access for women. And it, it also intersected in the tourism space, funny enough that we both kind of keep trying to bring these two things together. Um, but I, I didn't see it clearly for a really long time.

And I had someone interviewing me, kind of trying to help me give clarity on my next steps and my path. And she's like, well, do you see that you're always creating community for women. You're always advocating for women, whether it's like at the stage in your life when you were having children, you wanted to empower more women to know about childbirth and their bodies.

And then when you had a, your first small business, you wanted to create community for women who are doing small business. And like, I've just continually did that. And I was like, oh, I never noticed that about myself. But if I think back to even as a child, I could see myself already that version of myself who was just so. Adamant that like a, a girl could play football or the, the girl could read this book, or I just, I never, I would never let it die. So that's clearly who I am. But I wonder for you when that clarity came and then how you, how you knew that you wanted to direct that and kind of have that clear focus that I was just speaking about in South Africa.

Sarah: I call what you just described as understanding your own breadcrumbs. like our lives lead, lead us and guide us because we've left breadcrumbs behind behind us. Um, and if you are wise enough to, to see your own breadcrumbs that you left yourself, you can actually use your breadcrumbs to help guide you into the future.

Um, and what's interesting about that, and I I will answer the question, but I, I think what's interesting is we spend a lot of our lives contemplating what we're doing, what we're doing next, like what's our passion, what's our purpose? And the reality is if we get quiet enough, we get still enough, we get introspective enough, there is so much wisdom to be gained and so much insight for our future journey, even just reflecting on our past journey, and I had a very similar experience to you maybe about 18 months ago now, in that when I finished writing my first book, which is called Thinking Bigger, that I.

Uh, talked about a few moments ago when I finished writing, I realized I didn't want to stop writing. I really enjoyed the process and I realized there was another story I wanted to tell that the, I had told a, as the story of a decade of my life building under canvas and all the things I had learned and all the practical insights about building and scaling and growing a big business.

And then I realized there was a backstory to that story. And as I started to write my backstory of how did I even get to the place where I was building a really big travel company, how did I get there? I started, I spent the next year writing my own backstory. And as I wrote my backstory, I had a very similar thing happen to me that you just described, which was, I could see my threads, I.

I could see woven through my life at every single different stage. There were, there were, there was a glimmer of a thread that was the same. Um, and when you see your own threads, when you see, when you can see your own breadcrumbs, we can make sense. We can make sense of our purpose, we can make sense of the mission that we're on.

We can make sense of the work that we do or that we are drawn to doing. And it helps give some parameter I think, making sense of life. And it stops the question that says, oh, I. Or the thinking, I should be like them, or I should be like her or I should do that, or maybe I should, I just need to knuckle down and do this.

But when you understand what makes you come alive and because that's really what that is, right? It's understanding the things that makes you feel alive. It gives us so much definition for the things that we might do next. And I, I think my whole life I have been following a dream after, a dream, after a dream.

So everything I have ever done has always been because I had, I had some dream in my heart that I was just trying to pursue and just trying to follow and didn't necessarily understand it and didn't necessarily have all my dots connected my threads certain, um, but had a sense something was in me.

I wanted to pursue it and make it happen, and was brave enough just follow it and see where it went. And I think sometimes that's the part we forget because most of us can identify our own dreams or our own or our own inklings. Being brave enough to follow them and make things happen is the, is the hard part.

Christine: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, uh, what you were just saying, the kind of being brave enough. Even when the shape's not clear. 'cause I think that's the thing for me is I do now I'm very clear with that undercurrent and that thread, and I love that. That's my very favorite. That's how I see it. I like, when I have conversations with people like you, I, I just like, I look for that thread and see that, you know, weaving through their journey and, and seeing where that is in their lives today. Um, but for me, even just, you know, just before we got on this call, I was writing a list of people that are coming to a gathering that I'm hosting at a, um, travel event in a couple of months, and like writing everybody's name and seeing that group come together and knowing that we're all going to get to be in one room.

Like I just am lighting up. And I was thinking, what, what is that? What else could that be? What could I do with that? Because that brings me so much joy and I, I don't know yet, but I'm like, I just know whatever that energy is, if I can keep. Creating that the next thing is bound to come, even though I can't put my finger on it yet. And also, it can be so frustrating to be in that space where you're like, I know I'm being true to myself, but this thing doesn't have a name yet. And we are very attached to the name of the thing that we're doing.

Sarah: Yes. Yeah.

Christine: And so I think that can be really challenging.

Sarah: there's never a name for the thing that we're doing, right. Sometimes there is no label for it. But you know, you know it's a thing it brings you delight and joy it lights you up. And I think the thing we can get confused about is thinking that everything that we do with ourselves has to be about earning a living or making money.

And that can be confusing because and that can derail us from purpose and passion, um, with trying to think, how do I earn a living out of doing that? And I think that oversimplifies passion and purpose.

Christine: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also I, we do sometimes have to make a living. So then there's that, that,

like, that pressure I guess to find what, what that can be. But I think it's like a balancing act between the two. And I think so important for people to feel that that vitality and that that sense of purpose, because from that space, we can create, I think, the most momentum and create the biggest shifts because we were so powerful in that alignment. I, I would love to go back and talk a little bit about Enigma and, and what that's been like for you. you. know, that was the, the next point from the last time we talked. And then, you know, obviously then you wrote your book, which is really well aligned with, with that space as well. So I, I kind of like to hear from you, like, what, what did you really see in your experience so far?

Um, what has been successful and how has investing in women really changed the opportunities and outcomes that you've seen for this, this group of women you've been working with?

Sarah: Yeah. I, I will say from the get go that, um, investing in women, well, maybe I should rephrase that. Investing in Africa has certainly been harder and more challenging than I was first imagining for sure. Um, but I would say anytime we do anything for the first time that we've not done before, always discover things that we hadn't thought of, didn't know, couldn't have known, have to learn.

Um, and that's part of the. The innovation startup journey, you have to discover things by doing them. I call that a very expensive education. Um, but it has been, um, for me it was an extraordinary shift when you're a founder and an entrepreneur, you're in the ring daily fighting the fight and making things happen and getting knocked down and getting back up again and, you know, going again and trying to, trying to something forward.

it was a difficult and interesting transition for me to go from being the founder of a, of a large business effectively being an investor on the sidelines in many people's other business, in other businesses. And I initially, um, certainly struggled. With not being in the arena, I was very used to being in the arena, and I liken it now to like becoming a grandparent, I guess.

when it's, you're a baby, you're hands on, you're calling all the shots, and you know, deciding what time bedtime is and all the rest of it. um, when you're, you're one step removed from that, which is slightly different.

So I will say, um, I think, um, I have learned an enormous amount from so many women that I've worked with over the last five years and learned, uh, about so many different kinds of businesses and different operations.

Sorry. Um, and started to really what are some of the common pain points for women were, and some of my own pain points that I had discovered along the way were actually pain points from many, many women. I often thought I was the only one in the universe who struggled with things or didn't know things or didn't understand things.

I do not have an MBA, I did not go to business school, I just thought, oh, I'm the only one who doesn't know all this business stuff. And actually that's not the case. I discovered through working with Enigma that. Most women didn't know the, the things that I didn't know when I was growing and scaling my company.

And so that was kind of what ultimately led me to, to writing, writing the, writing my book, because I kept bumping up helping women solve particular problems, facing particular challenges, giving them in particular bits of information that would be hopefully useful to their journey. And realizing, gosh, there's so much, there's so much that's relevant for so many women that's the same.

Um, and could I write it all down in a, in a very tangible, practical way that also kind of leverage my own story and said, Hey, these were my pain problems too. and could we, we sort of exponentially lever that story? To help when many other women learn. I learned about myself that I, I loved being an educator, maybe more than I liked being an investor.

Um, and, but that I loved championing women and helping them realize that they're not alone with the things they don't know and don't understand. And could we help other women grow and scale businesses that literally would try and transform their own nations? Because I, I still believe ver fundamentally it's so important that women are at the table.

It's so important that women are building our world, because if we're not building, end up with a world that isn't for us and isn't about us, and excludes us. that's not what we need in 2025. And how do we keep moving the world forward one little bit at a time When I think to do that, women have to be at the table.

Women have to be involved in building our world. So enigma for me was, has been so many, so many things. Um, been a massive learning journey for me. And um, also realization that actually we all need, there's so many things that are the same that we need. and how can I help more women understand they're not alone and understand, hey, here are some of the really important building blocks, both mentally and practically.

'cause that was the other thing I realized that not all. business problems that women are facing were actually business problems. A lot of it were meant like emotional, mental, state problems and mindset problems that needed to be addressed. And so many of those were also very common. Not, you know, not unique, not different, um, and how, how important it is that we overcome those,

Christine: Yeah. Um, I think that's really interesting with the mindset. Problems, if you wanna call it problem. I mean, I, I think it's, you know, it's conditioning to the world that we live in,

right? Um, in my book club, we just read on our Best Behavior by Elise Lunan. Um, and it's a look at how the seven deadly sins have kind of shaped this belief and experience that women have in the world.

And reading that with my book club and watching the women kind of unpack and see the things that have held them where they are or have created the beliefs that they have one way or another about things, it was incredible and painful and beautiful and all the, because there we didn't realize, we thought this one thing was our. Experience or our issue or our battle. And really we realize it's this huge structure, right? And I think that's, that's, the, that's the powerful moment is when we realize it's just, like you said, it's not ours alone. And it's not just that it means many of us are having these problems, but it's that like the unification around the understanding of where the problem comes from gives us so much power.

So collectively having these conversations is really important. And just giving as many women that insight to realize that it's not them always holding themselves back or it's this repetitive narrative that they've heard over and over that they've internalized. So it's nothing against 'em, but I think so many of us then, like shame is one of the huge words in that book.

Like we internalize

that and then that, that's what kind of keeps us stuck.

Sarah: yes, a hundred percent. I, I didn't really realize until relatively recently that a lot of my own thinking that gets me stuck is really just because of the way I've been conditioned and because of what the world has been telling me fairly consistently. Um, and most women, um. believe certain things.

And you don't, you don't realize, you think, oh, it's just my own internal problem. I was actually, no, you, you were conditioned to believe that that was, that was a thing. and designed to, you know, keep you in a particular pigeon hole. that is reality. And I think many of us are waking up and starting to realize that, and realizing the world hasn't been designed for us to succeed in hasn't been for us, or hasn't been for equality.

See, and a, that's a challenging thing for us to have to navigate and figure out how. How we move forward in our world and how we continue to free ourselves from some of that. And we'll never be free of all of it, I don't think, because it's so deep. Um, but I think even just becoming aware of it and realizing actually it's not our fault.

It's not, didn't like, there's nothing wrong with us. In fact, there's something right with us because, you know, absorbed it and it's, it's only just now that we're starting to realize, oh yeah, that's, I I heard an amazing exactly on this. I thought that a, a woman, there was a TED talk about imposter syndrome and she, she basically said in the talk, um, imposter syndrome is a manmade thing to keep women down.

Imposter syndrome. It's not our problem that we've got imposter syndrome. And we, many of us do have imposter syndrome. She said it, it was given to us like they packaged it up sold it to us with a nice bow on the top and we all like lapped it up and, and that's, that's where we're at right now. I think we're just starting to realize so many of the things that we have inherently thought are our own problems or are, or like, are struggles that we will struggle with.

When actually they were, they were handed to us on a platter with, you know, sugar on the top and, know, served up as this is, this is the way it is.

Christine: Yeah, it's just what we needed

or, and it was so, I mean, like I said, it was. Heartbreaking and beautiful to just see like the women be like, oh, that too. Oh, not that too. Like it just was like, it, it, it's so good. I would highly recommend reading the book, although I really recommend reading it with like someone else that you can reflect on it because it is like it, it took us probably. Normally we do two months and we, we added extra time because we were like, we really need to

move slowly through this because it's like ripping so many like band-aids off or just such deep excavation. Um, well I really want to dive in a little bit more on funding in general and, and why this focus is so important, especially for women.

I, I know it's come up on the podcast a few times, um, but that women have such a disproportionate access to venture capital

funding and I imagine probably in Africa, maybe more. I don't know how that compares. I know it's pretty dismal globally. Um, anyway, but I would love to talk about, um, why funding is such an important strategy in empowering women to create these changes in their lives and the world.

Sarah: you're completely right. Uh, uh, most about the, the statistic is that 2% or less than 2% of all venture capital dollars is what goes to female founders. So that means only 2% of all capital that's being put into small businesses to grow and scale them is going to women, which means 98% of it is going to male entrepreneurs.

And what that says to me is what we are funding is, me, entrepreneurs and business builders are the. Backbone of every economy, and they are the builders of our world. I mean, everything we touch, wear, sleep, eat. I mean, produced it. Um, we're using a piece of technology, a business built it.

We're using a knife, a phone, a business, built it. I mean, there's nothing that we touch, smell, I mean nothing isn't somehow created by a business. And so business is really like the, the architecture of our world. It's, it's really what we're building and how we're building it. So for me, if we are only funding men's ideas and men's businesses.

That, that's really gonna affect the world and the future that my children I'm gonna live in, my children are gonna live in and what our world looks like. And I, I think we'll only perpetuate the, in some of the vast inequalities, not just through gender, but geography, um, across the world. And so for me it was sort of critically really important to think about how do we get more capital into the hands of women?

Because nothing bad happens when women have more money. Um, and so how do we help women build more? do we help women make their ideas reality? And, and for the most part, that is called hard cash. How do women make things happen? We give them cash. Do women have amazing ideas? Yes, they do. Let's give them cash and can we make things happen in the world that, that benefit women and girls?

Yes, we can. Let's give women cash. And so for me it just, it seemed like a no-brainer as sort of a, a counter steer to think about, okay, how do I invest my dollars in changing the world in terms of the way I wanna see the world change? And I, I. I would just love to see more women in every room. And because I think it makes the world better, I think it makes the world better for everyone, not just for women.

I think Germany makes the world better when women are in the room. And so, um, that was what we decided. Could we, we focus on investing in women helping women? Our focus was AFRI has been Africa, um, largely because Africa is the least developed continent on the planet, um, with the most, uh, people living in poverty.

Um, could we use capital to escalate the solving of some of Africa's systemic problems? could we empower women to be at the forefront of solving some of those big, big systemic real world problems? And so that was sort of our mission and our desire and to champion. Women and solve some big issues see what, see what's possible when you put money behind women.

Christine: As you were telling that story, I was just reminded, I was recently reading Soul of Money by Lynn Twist. I don't know

if you ever read that book, but there's a, a story that she shares when she was working in Africa and there was a community that they were visiting that had, you know, no access to water and they were in the middle of a desert and they, you know, she was like, I don't even know how people can exist here, but yet they are.

And at one point the women in the community came to her and said, there's water underneath our land.

Sarah: Hmm.

Christine: they said, we've been dreaming of it for generations. The women like knew the water was there and she said, if you would believe in us, we know this is true. So they eventually did get funding. They let the women take control even though this was a completely male dominated. Um, village and society, and they dug down and they found the water. And I just think of that story, and I like, have goosebumps right now, but I think of what if she didn't go there and just listen like that, that community and the surrounding communities that eventually had access to that water in the desert, like they wouldn't still be there, and everything that changed for them after that.

And there's so many stories like that where all it takes is just one person saying yes and believing in the voices of women to like categorically change what things

look like. And now when she goes back or when she went back, the women do have a seat at the table in that village because the men realize what they were contributing and, and, and what knowledge they had and, um, that it was equal.

And they, they, you know, they could determine what their, what their lives looked like moving forward. And, and so I, I just, I always think about that, that. It, it doesn't take much to make great changes. And, and then exact that example, like you were saying, it doesn't just make lives better for

women. It make, it made lives

better for everyone in that

area. Yeah.

Sarah: Everyone. It benefits everyone. If women can contribute, it makes everything better if women contribute. story made me think of, um, about two years ago now. I took a group of female CEOs from the us um, to go and trek to see the gorillas in Rwanda. And amazing group of women, incredibly successful, built some extraordinary businesses.

Um, it was an, it was an amazing group. And as we came down the mountain from having been up with the gorillas, we had, uh, several female guides and porters with us. And we asked the, the head guide, could we interview some of the women? we were intrigued by so many women being part of the national, you know, the, the, the effort to help tourists visit the gorillas.

And he said, sure, I'll translate. No problem. And we interviewed two of the women that had been walking with us and carrying our bags and holding our hands and helping us up the mountain.

And, well, I asked them difference has it made? Um, working for the National Park, um, as, as women, has it been good for you all? And they, they looked at us and they said, well, now we have, now we have jobs. Now we get, now we have a seat at the table in our community because we are contributing and we have economic power.

we get a voice. And because we get a voice now we can make a dec. Now we can contribute towards decision making for our village and our community. And then she said, because we have a voice at the table now, no woman dies in childbirth in our village. said, we've had no women die from childbirth.

And I was like. How, wow, what changed? And she said, well, we decided we were gonna spend the money that the government gives us as the National Park Jews to our village. Uh, we decided we were gonna buy an ambulance. Our village now has an ambulance, so anytime a woman is in labor in our village, they can drive to the hospital and deliver in safety, and nobody dies.

And it was just like, for the women that were standing with me, we were kind of like, you know, the jaw jaw was on the floor because, well, a, you're hearing about women dying in childbirth and you're thinking, how is that a thing in 2023 or whenever it was? And then realizing, wow, women being empowered and having jobs, um, and doing incredible conservation work now means they have economic substance and they can make.

Spending decisions and also means now they have stature in their community and are taken seriously about how they should communally invest their resources, which is directly then affecting women. And we're able to make decisions to advocate for themselves mean that no woman dies in childbirth. And I was like, this, this is not rocket science.

It's not crazy stuff. But when we give women sustenance and when we give them their power to create wealth give them opportunity and we allow them, uh, to take the reins and sit at the table, good things happen. And the whole community is better off. 'cause women are not dying in their community when they have babies.

Christine: Oh yeah. I wish that we could probably just tell hundreds of stories like that, but that is also why I feel like this podcast is really important, or conversations being held, you know, in this space are really important because those stories, especially when heard by other women. I think deeply resonate, right?

We can put ourself in that experience and we can, we can then see those, those barriers or inequities more clearly, like that group of women to just realize that experience seems so dissimilar to one that they might be having and yet is, is critically important and that this, this storytelling and story sharing is so important in creating and activating change as well.

So I really appreciate you, um, sharing that with us. Um, one of the other things I had my list on, my list to talk to you about with regards to funding, um, was really just the. Not only the access to funding, but understanding funding. So obviously your book is super helpful. Um, one of the things, and again, I, I don't remember, I did research and just wrote down things related to you that I was like, oh, I love this. Um, but I think it was a podcast or something I listened to when you were talking about, you know, should you take funding to grow your business? Who are the right funding partnerships and like one wrong choice can cost you everything. And so it's a scary, vulnerable place, especially when you don't have a background in education.

You are maybe eager to say yes when someone finally comes with the money because you're like, this is my opportunity. Even if maybe that partner doesn't seem aligned, do you say yes to the partner that's not aligned or say no and wait for the right partner? Um, hopefully this is, um, a catalyst to whatever that conversation was.

'cause I know when I heard, I was like, oh, this feels. Also really important because it's easier then to say no than to say the wrong Yes, I guess. And I, and I felt like that felt like something important to dig into.

Sarah: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. You never say yes to the, to someone you are not aligned with. I often joke with my female entrepreneurs that like, um, bringing an investor into your business is a bit like getting married. Um, they become your business partner, um, and you probably spend as much time with them potentially as your, as your real partner in life.

So wanna like them, and more than that, you want to feel like you are a good fit for each other. I. even more significantly than that. I think one of the things that I spell out in the book is understanding all the options that we have and understanding the possibilities. And so, you know, if you, if you don't know what the myriad of options are, um, for funding in particular, can be very easy to, to the wrong path because you've picked the wrong thing or taken the wrong because of what was, what you knew.

Um, or sold yourself short because you took a little bit of bank funding and if you'd have thought about it or had the right connections or the right information, you might've got a bigger, uh, equity deal by going out to go after an investor. So, um, I think understanding there are options what those options look like is really important, and understanding who invests in what and how they invest and what they look for, and finding the right kind of investor then finding values aligned investor and someone that you like and you think you can work with and who is gonna make sense for working with you.

Um, is, is as important as choosing a spouse. I mean, hopefully the, the relationship does not last quite as long as a, a spouse relationship does, but it's the same kind of commitment. So wanna feel really good about who you're getting into bed with.

Christine: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it's really important, and I, I, know I have people ask, you know, questions around that all the time. Like, how do you, how do you choose and how do you not get lured, you know, by the possibility even when it feels like the wrong possibility. And so I, I just

wanted to, to

check in with that.

Sarah: had in the early days of raising money for Under Canvas, it took me about 18 months of trying to raise money and trying to raise money and just not finding the right spot and not finding the right sort of group of people. And finally, after about 18 money, 18 months, uh, a venture capital firm that liked the travel space and who wrote me a term sheet.

And I was ecstatic 'cause we, our business was constantly on a knife edge, constantly, not enough cash, constantly. Like we were on the edge for a long time, constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul maxing credit cards out. I mean, you name it. I was doing it trying to keep the business afloat. And finally we had an investor come to the table and said, I love this business.

It's great. make you an offer to put $7 million into this business so you can continue to grow it and scale it. And here are the terms. And I was, oh, I was so relieved. But when I dug into the terms discovered, they're not, they're not very friendly. They're not very good for me, but they're really not very good for me.

Um, there's plenty of downside here. I, I tried to negotiate and tried to, you know, navigate my way around it, try and make them a little bit better and like, try and take away some of the nasty things that were really great, could see me sort of lose control of my business with a flick of a pen.

And, um, tried for ages and ages and ages and ages. And one day I called the guy up while they was, they were still doing diligence on my business. They were still sort of getting under the hood and looking at everything. And I called him up to tell him there was a problem with the business and something had happened.

We were trying to buy a piece of real estate for another, uh, under canvas location. And the. Something went wrong with the sale and the seller didn't appear for the closing, hadn't signed the title deed paperwork. And we weren't a contract and wasn't great, but I, my lawyers were telling me it's okay.

We can force him to close. It's just gonna take a bit more time. Um, so I was like, okay, I better tell the investor, I better tell them this isn't happening at the time it was supposed to happen and it's been delayed and here's the problem, and yada, yada yada. It wasn't a major problem. It was definitely solvable.

I definitely had bigger problems that happened, but it was a problem and I needed to be open and honest about it. And I called him up and I was expecting him to say, okay, thanks for letting us know. Is there anything you need? can I, can we help? Do you need our lawyers? You know, do you need, do you need anything from us?

And instead, he said to me, that's really bad for you. If you don't fix that, that's gonna be very bad for you. And I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean that's gonna be bad for me? I was like, it's gonna be bad for me, it's gonna be bad for the company, it's gonna be bad for me. And he said, no, that's gonna be, that's gonna be the end of you.

I was like, what? What? And I put the phone down and I thought to myself, is this, is this the support? And is this the kind of person I, this guy's supposed to be on my side, like this guy's supposed to be in my camp. And suddenly I'm feeling like gonna get fired from my own company for something that I didn't even do.

this was, this was not my fault, this was not my doing and I'm solving it. It was a very bizarre situation. Anyway, I realized I. The guy was a bully and the guy was just throwing his weight around. it made me realize there's no way I can do a deal with this guy. Like I would be crazy to let this guy into my business and give him any power and authority over me.

I would be nuts to do that to myself. I would be degrading myself letting him come in and do that to me on a regular basis. And I suddenly realized, oh, I gotta turn $7 million down. And it's taken me a year and a half to get here and I got no other options on the table. And I really need the money.

And I don't know how I'm gonna keep the business afloat if we don't take the money. But just like we started this call, I knew. Like the women in that village who knew there was water. I just knew this is bad. You can't do a deal with someone who treats you like this. You can't. You'll be crazy. But yet everything else in you is screaming, but it's $7 million.

What are you gonna do if you don't have the $7 million? And I was like, little voices in there. I do not know what I'm gonna do. But I do know I cannot do this. I do know I cannot be true to myself and say yes to that. That is not gonna work. is not gonna be good for me. And so I called him back the next day and said, thank you very much for all your effort and work on our behalf, but we're gonna pass on this deal.

And he went ballistic. It was, it was horrible. It was not. Nice and calm and you know, will, will part ways. It was, it was bleak and he threatened and scolded and shamed and did, I mean, and everything in the book, he pulled it out and threw it at me I was like, well, I, if I wasn't sure before this moment, I'm really, really, really sure now.

So all of that to just say listening to yourself, listening to your own instinct, feeling like you have to do something when it doesn't align with your values. I mean, his behavior was not in line with my values. the way he spoke and tr tried to treat me, not in the way that I would speak to anyone that alone, someone I was trying to do business with.

Um, and I just made me think there's no amount of money that's worth saying yes to. To allow yourself to be put in that situation. But that's, that's one of the reasons that that incident made me think if I ever sell my company, if my company ever becomes valuable, gonna be the vet. I'm gonna be that investor that I wanted.

I wanted to, I wanna be the person that I should have had on the end of the phone that day and I'm gonna

Christine: Hmm.

Sarah: women myself. 'cause this is ridiculous.

Christine: Yeah. Um, thank you so much for, for sharing that because again, I think that will be really resonant and I think so many of us want to say yes to ourselves, but you just, there's so many things that tell you, I. To question that. And so I think, I think that's really valuable. Um, before we end our conversation, Sarah, I wanna make sure that we talk about few and

far.

So I've been so excited since I saw like a post on LinkedIn and I was like, Sarah's back in travel. I'm like, what is she doing? I can't wait to hear what, like, got you. To take a step back into the ring. So, um, I'd love to hear, you know, where that came from. Um, what has inspired you to create it and, and what you're doing?

Sarah: Yeah, I think, well, partly I'm back in

Christine: I.

Sarah: because of having stood along on the sidelines, watching other people in the ring for, for the last five years. But also I think because of my own evolution. Um, and when I built Under Canvas, um, we focused on building a very sustainable footprint off grid company.

And over the last five years, I've really thought about business in a different way. And because of the work we've been doing in Africa, I started to think about how do we build regenerative companies? How do we build companies that do good? do we build companies that move the needle, problems, protect the land, regenerate our planet?

I. We regenerate communities, change the world. And I started thinking about, okay, well what would that, what would that look like for us if we were, if we were thinking about how, how would we think about regeneration? obviously the travel space is a space I know really, really well and I really, really love.

And when you've been in travel for a while, it's hard to get out. Um, and we started thinking about, we, we bought a, a piece of land during Covid up in the Burg Mountains in Limpopo that we were thinking would just be a little bit of wilderness that we would escape, our family would escape to, and that we would enjoy, and that we would have our own.

Little piece of paradise, but the more people that we met who were up there, and the more stories we heard about the destruction of biodiversity and the threat to our planet losing wild spaces and, um, carbon emissions and soil quality lost. And we started to think, okay, I think I wanna be part of the solution to that.

And I don't wanna just stand on the sidelines and cheer other people aren't. I, I, I think can. We can, we can add value here and we can bring our hospitality experience and, and that was what we kept hearing. The, where our first project is, is located, is on a hundred thousand hectares in the Burg mountains in, then poppo in South Africa.

And it is a hundred thousand hectares of extraordinary wilderness that has, um, biodiversity that is more dense than even in the Amazon and an extraordinary number of plants and flora and trees. And it's, and it's an incredibly beautiful area, not under any form of protection, is not classified as a reserve or a nature reserve, is constantly under threat from coal mining.

So we kept hearing, we need to put this mountain on the map. We need to protect it, we need to regenerate it, we need to restore it, we need to take care of it. And in my head I'm thinking, well, the only way we do that, way we put it on a map is if we bring people here and we create a destination.

And the only way we're gonna bring people here is if we have an extraordinary lodge here. And if we have an extraordinary lodge here, there's a story we can tell to the world about the work that we wanna do here how we're gonna save this area of wilderness for generations to come. And so that turned into our next travel mission.

And so now we're building a company called Few and Far that is, I classify it as a travel slash climate company. We are an active travel company that is trying to do regenerative work wherever we are. And in the Burg Mountains we are trying to rewild and restore about 50,000 hectares of degraded and bring it back to its pristine biosphere state, at the same time create access to this extraordinary place that hardly anyone knows about and create extraordinary adventures for people to, to have personal transformation physical transformation and protect, preserve.

Rewild and rewild ourselves all at the same time. So we're on a new journey of looking at how we can use, um, eco lodging as a tool for protecting and restoring extraordinary places and how we can, how we can do something magical and, and incredible, um, and at the same time really, really impact our planet.

So that's, that's our mission. That's our, our vision. And we just opened the first lodge, um, just before Christmas or Christmas Eve, um, at the end of last year. And, uh, our welcoming guests from all over the world.

Christine: Hmm. Thank you for sharing. I mean, I knew that there was gonna be magic behind it, just knowing what I know of you, but I love so much and I have so many other questions to ask, but we're gonna be out of time. So, um, part three, maybe we'll need to come back in here. How few and far is going, um, and you know, what you've learned in that journey. Um, the, there was one question I wanna ask before I, uh, do our, our rapid fire here. Um, if there is one way that you would maybe encourage women to either grow their mindset or skillset or business, something that you've learned that's a really actionable item, what would you, what would you

share?

Sarah: is easy because it's the title of my book. I would say Think Bigger. Um, one of the things I noticed from working with other women over the last five years is that almost all of us think too small, um, because we think about what we can manage, what we can take on, because our plates are often very full.

So thinking bigger is not about doing more because all of us do not need more things to do. Um, but it is about thinking differently about what's possible. Um, what, what, what we can navigate, what we can instigate, what we can make happen. if we thought even just 10 times bigger than we thought today, the ripple effects of that would be enormous.

And we need to take our own ceilings down. need to start believing the ceilings that we bump up against, um, get out of our own way and believe that extraordinary things are possible. Because if not us, who so think bigger. Take how you're thinking today and ask yourself, what would it look like if I times that by 10?

And it, and that thought was 10 times bigger. Than it is right now. That idea was 10 times bigger than right now. That business was 10 times bigger than it is right now. What would that look like? So think bigger.

Christine: Um, that's like my, I don't know, 10th set of goosebumps during our conversation, so thank you. I was like, oh gosh. I'll go on a, a tangent that will take us too long, so I won't go there, but I'm definitely gonna be contemplating those words in my own, in my own life. Um, okay. Rapid fire questions to wrap

us up. Um, what are you reading right now?

Sarah: One of my reading, oh, I'm reading an amazing book by an author called John uff, who is so funny. Um, and he's, it's called Start. Um, and it's about. It's about following your purpose and your dream and making the things inside you happen. And of course, the title of it is Just Start. Um, but he's unpacking the things that get in our way.

Uh, it's a, it's a mindset book. he's also hilariously funny, so I am really joining that.

Christine: Yeah, thank you. Uh, what is always in your suitcase or backpack when you travel?

Sarah: Ro Bos tea. Ro bos tea is a, a red bush South African tea, I don't go anywhere without it.

Christine: Um, to sojourn, to me means to travel somewhere with the respect as if you

live there. Um, where is someplace that you would still love to sojourn?

Sarah: Oh, that is a great question. I am, I am contemplating about where we might live next right now. Um, so there are many places I would still like to live actually. Um, I would love to spend more time in Europe and I would love to, I spent many years in the Far East, which was where I met my husband, um, in my early twenties.

And I would love to have a stint back in Asia, uh, with my kids do life differently as a family. So I, yeah, there are still many places I would like to sojourn.

Christine: Yeah. I love that. Well, maybe in the next conversation too, we'll, we'll be tuning into here where Sarah is next. Um, what is something you eat that immediately connects you to a place you've been?

Sarah: Ooh, a good question. oh, there's a staple food in South Africa called Pap, and it's like a milli meal. It's like a corn, corn meal, effectively, um, like a polenta, but it's a staple food here. Um, and so whenever I eat it, I, I am grounded in place and grounded, by the African way of life and the African diet,

Christine: Hmm. Um, who was a person that inspired or encouraged you to set out to travel the world?

Sarah: I don't know. I don't know. it. From maybe when I've been 18 years old, um, it has been in me, like in me, in me, in me. And it wasn't like I was ever running away from anything or wanting to escape from anywhere. I had an amazing life, but I just this obsession with exploring and going places and cultures and food and I just was in me.

So I don't know that anyone did, it was something that was definitely undeniably me.

Christine: Yeah, I can also relate, like it was like the world just kept

calling and I was like, I'll be there

soon

Sarah: doesn't

Christine: as kind of my, yeah. And my oldest daughter has the same DNA and she has Pinterest boards and she is, she wants to, you know, like have her own Airbnb account just so she can save beautiful places. Like she just can't stop

thinking about where else

she could be going and learning about.

So, um, okay. Next, uh, if you could take an adventure with one person, fictional or real, alive or past, who would it be?

Sarah: Hmm. Uh, I'd love to spend time with Nelson Mandela. I've learned a lot about the man since we've been living in South Africa for the last six years, and he was a man who spent most of his life in confinement in a very small prison style, but yet lived, uh, and expressed a very large life, um, and a very large way of thinking that was extraordinary for a man who lived so many years not going anywhere.

And I, I think he would've been a fascinating person to sit and. Absorb the wisdom and revelations that he discovered in solitude and absorb them by being with him. That would've been amazing.

Christine: Yeah, thank you. I don't know why, but for some reason I, I was like, I think that's who she's gonna say. Um, I don't know if it's 'cause of where you are or not, but I just thought that might be, um, the last question is, who is one woman in the travel industry you admire and would love to recognize in this space today?

Sarah: Yes. I have a very dear friend, um, who I had lunch with today called Robin Woodhead, she is the founder of White Desert. And White Desert is a ecolog operator in Antarctica and she has spent almost 20 years, uh, working in Antarctica and fighting to save Icelands and. Has sat on the, uh, Antarctic governance board.

It's been the governor of Antarctica for a long, long time, an extraordinary human an amazing woman in travel who really, really pioneered and set new standards for what traveling to Antarctica should look like and does look like, has really, really made waves, um, over the last 20 years through her work.

So she's an extraordinary woman.

Christine: Thank you. Thank you for mentioning her. Um, and thank you for inspiring all of us to, um, think bigger and really follow our path and our dreams to see what we can do to create change in the world. So I really appreciate your time with us

today.

Sarah: my pleasure. Thanks so much.

Christine: Thank you.